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Lifestyle of sotapanna


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#1 RobertK

RobertK

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Posted 10 June 2006 - 02:40 AM

On the question about the sakagami who still craved a husband (see below):

There are so many differences in the accumulations of beings. We see it all the time; all of us have so many good and bad points because of so many different habits from the infinite past. Some like Abhidhamma -this is good but because of so much conceit developed it becomes another way for them to feel proud, then it is of no use.
Some are not much interested in Abhidhamma and don't have much learning but whatever they do learn they apply and so have great benefits.

The sakadagami and sotapanna have eliminated all wrong view; they cannot believe that any dhamma lasts or is 'theirs'. But they still have the type of lobha (desire) that arises for sense objects. They know that this type of lobha is conditioned and so are not fooled into thinking it is self. There are cases like Visakkha, who was a sotapanna at 7years, who after she got married had 10 sons and 10 daughters, still very much involved in sense desire. Ones like her are said to be attached to the round because of so many lives where they took pleasure in the sense objects. Even after becoming a sotapanna it is said that Visakkha will spend a long time in samsara - but only in very good conditions - because of so much accumulated clinging to sense pleasures. Thus sotapanna and sakadagami can still enjoy sex and they live normal lives depending on their nature. Some might renounce the world and become monks and nuns; others might stay as laypeople but live a simple life without husband or wife; other might take 8 precepts; while still others indulge in sense pleasures as is their nature. What they can never do is go back to having wrong view, nor can they ever drink alcohol or lie or steal or kill even an ant. They can never take any other teacher than the Buddha, and they value the triple gem above all things. They give freely as they have eliminated stinginess. But if they are the type who has accumulated much sense object desire then their life will still have its sorrows and frustrations.

Nevertheless, they are on the path that gradually wears away sense desire away and so sooner or later they will attain arahatship. In the case of the sotapanna they can only be reborn 7 times in the kama- loka (deva and human realm) .

best wishes

robert


In dhamma-list@y..., oreznoone@a... wrote:

Hello Robert, all

Thank you for the latest contribution. Don't stop!

Two questions about your recent post.

1. For every moment that arises intricate conditions are needed. In the sutta above we read "On account of the eye base and visible object, eye consciousness arises". This aspect of the Paticcasamuppada is happening now while looking at the computer screen...

Yes, this version seems to just have the second half and be about the arising of the perceptual world, but Buddhaghosa- translated as The Dispeller of Delusion, Pali Text society)p244 "and now, because this structure of conditions exists not only in a plurality of consciousnesses but also in a single consciousness, he said avijjapaccaya sankharo (with ignorance as condition, a formation arises) and so on thus setting forth the schedule in order to teach, as to its various aspects, the structure of conditions of a single conscious moment"

Here we have all the nidanas. I'm not at all clear how they function, in Buddhaghosa's account, in a single moment. That, I think, is the general problem, seeing how each link leads to the next (for everyone's account). How does, especially, nama-rupa, bhava, and jati work in a single moment in this account? Is he talking about the arising of a moment of perception = arising of the world?

2. The story you used strikes me a bizarre. Sumana died. She was already a sakagami but she had been unable to find a husband. She was gradually overwhelmed with disappointment over this and refusing to eat [or unable to eat] she lay in her bed, ill. Why did a sakagami want a husband? This isn't just a touch of sensual craving, this is crazy obsession. Anathapindika (sotapanna) crying is all right, but the former? If one can reach that level and have no better control what's the point? Am I missing something here?

metta, stephen