by tiltbillings » Wed Oct 02, 2013 2:13 pm
robertk wrote:. . .
Understanding has to be developed for an endlessly long time.
Not according the Buddha.
Some people dislike it that sati and panna develop only very gradually, but there is no other
Gradually is a relative word, but if one follows the Buddha's teachings, we can see/experience that mindfulness and wisdom are not somethings in some hopelessly distant future.
If someone is impatient and tries to combine different ways of practice in
order to hasten the development of panna, he makes his life very complicated.
The Sujin method described here seems to be hopelessly complicated and contrary to the Buddha's very direct teachings.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.
Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.
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Location: Turtle Island
by rohana » Thu Oct 03, 2013 3:39 am
Not having read the entire thread, may be someone can summarize the answers to the following questions from Sujin-approach perspective? I'm guess some of these have already been addressed:
- How is the Sujin position different from the position taken by the Brahmin Unnabha:
"Brahman, the holy life is lived under the Blessed One with the aim of abandoning desire."
"Is there a path, is there a practice, for the abandoning of that desire?"
"Yes, there is a path, there is a practice, for the abandoning of that desire."
"What is the path, the practice, for the abandoning of that desire?"
"Brahman, there is the case where a monk develops the base of power endowed with concentration founded on desire & the fabrications of exertion. He develops the base of power endowed with concentration founded on persistence... concentration founded on intent... concentration founded on discrimination & the fabrications of exertion. This, Brahman, is the path, this is the practice for the abandoning of that desire."
"If that's so, Master Ananda, then it's an endless path, and not one with an end, for it's impossible that one could abandon desire by means of desire."
- When the Buddha talked about a 'gradual training' was he excluding any formal practice?
- What about formal practice for the purpose of developing jhāna, after going to 'the foot of a tree or an empty dwelling'?
- Similar to any idea of 'I-will-practice-meditation', how does one tackle any lōbha that can exist as 'I will follow Sujin's advice to gain awakening at some future point' or 'I will read Abhidhamma' - because even when we read a dhamma book, a subtle desire for awakening can be just as present as when we do any formal meditation. (Basically, how does even listening to a dhamma talk or reading a dhamma book not be part of a 'formal practice'?)
My understanding is that the cultivation of insight into aniccā, dukkha and anattā leads to dispassion. Once dispassion sets in, one let's go, making the breakthrough to stream entry(so the formal practice is a means to an end). However, usually the moment of release happens at an unexpected moment, outside of formal practice, since during the formal practice there can be too much clinging to the idea of the goal. So I think there's certainly a point here to be made, but it seems to me like Khun Sujin has taken this basic idea and run it into an extreme.