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#1 RobertK

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Posted 11 June 2009 - 01:55 AM


The dhamma is profound thus what is patipatti, sometimes translated as right 'practice'?

Panna, wisdom, is a mental factor, that arises when there are correct conditions.

It has levels and types. One may understand correctly a Dhamma sutta, and at that time there is panna arising. This is panna at the level of pariyatti.

Then there may be they direct knowing of a characteristic of a reality with panna - and this is patipatti.

Then they may be deeper knowing, again with panna, and this is pativedha.










Posted by: mikenz66 Jun 8 2009, 04:40 AM
OK, while we're on Dictionaries:

QUOTE
http://http://what-b...p.htm#pariyatti 'learning the doctrine', the 'wording of the doctrine'. In the 'progress of the disciple', 3 stages may be distinguished: theory, practice, realization, i.e. 1 learning the wording of the doctrine, pariyatti; 2 practising it, patipatti; 3 penetrating it, pativedha, and realising its goal.

So, Robert, I presume you want to discuss misconceptions about what constitutes what is translated here as "practise"?

Metta
Mike



Posted by: robertk2 Jun 8 2009, 11:03 AM
There are two main types of patipatti explained in the texts, viz. samatha and the development of vipassana (levels of vipassana are moments of pativedha - although in some contexts pativedha refers to the experience of nibbana).

Sometimes the word bhavana is used to refer to either samatha or the development of vipassana (which is actually satipatthana).

When the texts talk about meditation, jhaya, it is useful to know that there are two types.

The Dhammapada 371 :"Meditate, o bhikkhu and be not heedless."

The atthakatha(Commentary) says "o bhikkhus meditate by the two kinds of meditative absorptions" And the tika notes that this is twofold in "the sense of meditative absorption that arises depending on an object and meditative absorption that arises dependent on characteristics" The tika later explains this by saying that the first is (p506 note 6 of carter and palihawadana) "the eight attainments (jhanas) to be obtained by training the mind in concentrating on one of the thirty eight objects such as kasina [or metta, or Buddha or Dhamma or breath etc] and the second means 'insight wisdom, path and fruit'..to be obtained by reflecting on the three characteristics'"

Now when it says 'reflecting' this includes direct insight into the actual characteristics and conditions of the present moment(patipatti) right up to the vipassana nanas and magga and phala(pativedha). The Dhammapada pradipaya (see p457 of carter) says "to consider the coming into being of rupa on account of ignorance, craving, kammaand nutrition, and also to see the mere characteristics of its instantaneous coming into being, without looking for causative aspect; thus one should consider the rise of rupa in five ways. Likewise to consider the rise of
the other 4 khandas in the same way...Thus the rise of the pancakkhanda (five aggregates )is seen in 25 ways. To see that the rise of the khandas is stopped by abolishing the causes:ignorance, craving, kamma and nutrition..in this way the cessation of the agregates should be seen" end quote


Posted by: robertk2 Jun 8 2009, 11:14 AM
Some pali and definitions:
from http://groups.yahoo....p/message/98257


2) When a person realizes with wisdom (vipassanaa) that all sa"nkhaara [conditioned things] are impermanent; then he would tire of dukkha.
This is the path of purity. (Dh.277)
.....


CSCD
311. <<Cattaari sotaapattiya'ngaani - sappurisasa.msevo, saddhammassavana.m, yonisomanasikaaro, dhammaanudhammappa.tipatti.
Walshe DN 33.1.11(13) 'Four factors of Stream-Attainment (sotaapattiyangaani):
association with good people (sappurisa-sa'mseva), hearing the true Dhamma, thorough attention (yoniso manasikaara), practice of the Dhamma in its entirety(dhammaanudhamma-pa.tipatti)
.....

4)#31806
Suan: >Both the terms "anupassanaa" and "vipassanaa" in their turn are merely the synonyms of the term "panaa".

Please view the following Pali quote from Section 357, Vibha~nga, the second Abhidhamma Pi.taka text. This quote defines the term "Anupassii" by simple asking "What is anupassanaa (katamaa anupassanaa)?"

"Vibha~nge pana anupassiiti tattha "katamaa anupassanaa? Yaa pa??aa pajaananaa vicayo pavicayo dhammavicayo sallakkha.naa upalakkha.naa paccupalakkha.naa pa.n.diccam kosallam nepu??am vebhabyaa cintaa upaparikkhaa bhuurii medhaa pari.naayikaa VIPASSANAA sampaja??am patodo pa??aa pa??indriyam pa??aabalam pa??aasattham pa??aa paasaado pa??aa-aaloko pa??aa-obhaaso pa??aapajjoto pa??aa ratanam amoho dhammavicayo sammaadi.t.thi, ayam vuccati anupassanaa."

Did you see the term "vipassanaa" in capital letters? Please also check other synonyms such as Sammaadi.t.thi (the Right View) as the last one.<
****
>Sarah: Translation given in PTS Book of Analysis:

"357. `Contemplating [anupassiiti]' means: Therein what is contemplation
[anupassanaa]?
that which is wisdom [pannaa], understanding [pajaananaa], :[see par 525]: absence of dullness, truth investigation, right view.
This is called contemplation. Of this contemplation he is possessed, well possessed, attained, well attained, endowed, well endowed, furnished.
Therefore this is called `contemplating'."
...
>Suan: The following is Pali passage from Section 525, Vibha~nga.

525. "Sampajaano"ti tattha katamam sampaja??am? Yaa pa??aa pajaananaa vicayo pavicayo dhammavicayo sallakkha.naa upalakkha.naa paccupalakkha.naa pa.n.diccam kosallam nepu??am vebhabyaa cintaa upaparikkhaa bhuuriimedhaa pari.naayikaa vipassanaa sampaja??am patodo pa??aa pa??indriyam pa??aabalam pa??aasattham pa??aapaasaado pa??aa-aaloko pa??aa-obhaaso pa??aapajjoto pa??aaratanam amoho dhammavicayo sammaadi??hi–idam vuccati "sampaja??am". Iti imaaya ca satiyaa iminaa ca sampaja??ena upeto hoti …pe… samannaagato. Evam bhikkhu sato sampajaano abhikkamati, sato sampajaano pa.tikkamati, sato sampajaanoaaloketi, sato sampajaano viloketi, sato sampajaano sami?jeti, sato sampajaano pasaareti, sato sampajaanakaarii hoti, sa~nghaa.tipattaciivaradhaara.ne sato sampajaanakaarii hoti, asite piite khaayite saayite sato sampajaanakaarii hoti, uccaarapassaavakamme sato sampajaanakaarii hoti, gate .thite nisinne sutte jaagarite bhaasite tu.nhiibhaave sampajaanakaarii hoti.<
*****
>Sarah: Translation from `Book of Analysis':
"525: `Aware'[Sampajaano] means: Therein what is awareness [sampaja??am]?
that which is wisdom [pa??aa], understanding, investigation, research, truth investigation, discernment, discrimination, differentiation, erudition, proficiency, subtlety, analysis, consideration, breadth, sagacity, guidance, insight, awareness, goad, wisdom, controlling
faculty of wisdom, power of wisdom, sword of wisdom, tower of wisdom, light of wisdom, lustre of wisdom, splendour of wisdom, jewel of wisdom, absence of dullness, truth investigation, right view.
This is called awareness. Thus of this mindfulness and this awareness he is possessed, :see para 357: furnished. Thus a bhikkhu mindful and aware approaches; mindful and aware he departs; mindful and aware he looks ahead; mindful and aware he looks around; mindful and aware he bends; mindful and aware he stretches; mindful he acts with awareness; in bearing the outer robe, the alms-bowl and the under robe, mindful he acts with awareness; in eating, in drinking, in chewing, in tasting, mindful he acts with awareness; in walking, in standing, in sitting, in sleeping, in waking, in talking, in being silent, he acts with awareness."
*****
*****
#31744

> The following list is also the synonyms of pa??aa in Section 16,
> Cittuppaada Ka.n.dam, Dhammasa~nga.nii (the First Book of
> Abhidhamma).
>
> 16. Katamam tasmim samaye pa??indriyam hoti? Yaa
> tasmim samaye pa??aa pajaananaa vicayo pavicayo dhammavicayo
> sallakkha.naa upalakkha.naa paccupalakkha.naa
> pa.n.diccam kosallam nepu??am vebhabyaa cintaa
> upaparikkhaa bhuurii medhaa pari.naayikaa vipassanaa
> sampaja??am patodo pa??aa pa??indriyam pa??aabalam
> pa??aasattham pa??aapaasaado pa??aa-aaloko pa??aa-obhaaso
> pa??aapajjoto pa??aaratanam amoho dhammavicayo sammaadi.t.thi–
> idam tasmim samaye pa??indriyam hoti.
>
> Although the list does not contain "Anupassanaa" as in the list in
> Vibha~nga, it does contain the terms of Satipa.t.thaana Suttam,
> namely, pajaananaa (from pajaanaati), and sampaja??am.
>
> You could perhaps check the PTS translation of Dhammasanga.nii at
> Section 16, Cittuppaada Ka.n.dam. See what happens in terms of
> adequacy and clarity!
...


"The insight which there is on that occasion is understanding, search, research, searching the Doctrine, discernment, discrimination, differentiation, erudition, proficiency, subtlety, criticism, reflection, analysis, breadth, sagacity, a `guide', intuition, intelligence, a `goad'; wisdom as faculty, wisdom as power, wisdom as a sword, wisdom as a height [in the sense of sth lofty], wisdom as light, wisdom as glory, wisdom as splendour, wisdom as a precious stone; the absence of dullness, searching the Truth, right views - this is the wisdom that there then is."
****

Metta,


Posted by: robertk2 Jun 8 2009, 11:23 AM
Pariyatti is translated as learning or theory. However when used in the texts it always implies correct understanding. As I said in the first post pariyatti has the element of panna present. Hence one might read a sutta but not understand the meaning; this is not considered to be pariyatti.

The Atthasalini, (triplets p451)defines "ignorant average man" as:


"owing to the absense of access to the Scriptures, and of the higher attainment of the path and fruition. For to whoever owing to the absense of learning by heart and deduction therefrom regarding the khandas(aggregates) elements(dhatus) sense-organs(ayatanas) the causal mode, the applications of mindfulness etc there is NO attainment of that learning which represses opinionativeness, nor any access, owing to the non-attainment of what should be attained by conduct. Such a person, from the absense of such access and such attainment should be known as ignorant"

If there is no panna being developed at the level of pariyatti there cannot then be any patipatti.


Posted by: robertk2 Jun 8 2009, 11:51 AM
How then does genuine patipatti arise?

____________

The uninstructed worldling knows something of the characteristics of dhammas, he knows when he craves or feels angry. He can experience all types of subtle hardness, coldness, vibration etc. If he trains himself by yoga etc. he can know that these are changing and many other things. But he conceives them wrongly as being me or mine etc.. The enlightened one experiences all these same dhammas but with the eye of wisdom.

From Mulapariyaya trasn Bodhi:
The "uninstructed worldling" (p40 of Mulapariyaya) "needs to be taught, because he possesses neither learning(agama) nor achievement. For he who possesses neither the learning running counter to the activity of conceiving because he has neglected to study, question, and discriminate the aggregates (khandhas), elements, sense bases (ayatanas) truths, law of conditionality and foundations of mindfulness etc , nor spiritual achievement because he has failed to achieve what should be achived by practice is said to be 'uninstructed'.

Between the enlightened ones and the 'uninstructed worldling' there is the "good worldling" who is learning and developing correctly:

p41 "The Buddha, the kinsman of the sun, speaks of the worldling in a twofold way. One is the worldling blinded by darkness and the other is the worldling noble and good"

Bhikkhu Bodhi notes in his introduction to Mulapariyaya p14 That
"in the stage of full understanding of the known, the gross object is analysed into its constituent dhammas and each dhamma is delimited in its distinct characteristic, function, manifestation, and proximate cause. This procedure rectifies the common sense assumption of simple substantial unites, disclosing in its place a world of composite wholes brought temporarily together through a concatenation of conditions"

So it is a matter of learning correct Dhamma and applying it. The hard part is that wrongview and desire are inevitably waiting to suborn all efforts. Patience is indeed a virtue in Dhamma.


Posted by: robertk2 Jun 8 2009, 01:00 PM
"Patience is indeed a virtue in Dhamma."



Thanks to Scott for these quotes:

From the Cariyaapi.taka A.t.thakathaa, A Treatise on the Paaramiis (this is in Bh. Bodhi's Brahmajaala Sutta and its Commentaries, p. 271), regarding the perfection of patience:


"...And: 'When there is patience, the mind becomes concentrated, all formations appear to reflection as impermanent and suffering; all dhammas as not-self, nibbaana as unconditioned, deathless, peaceful, and sublime, and the Buddha-qualities as endowed with inconceivable and immearsurable potency. Then established in acquiescence in conformity, the groundlessness of all 'I-making' and 'mine-making' becomes evident to reflection thus: 'Mere dhammas alone exist, devoid of self or of anything pertaining to a self. They arise and pass away in accordance with their conditions. They do not come from anywhere, they do not go anywhere, they are not established anywhere. There is no agency in anything whatsoever.'..."

In a footnote:


"Annulomiya.m khantiya.m .thito. 'Acquiescence in conformity' indicates the stage in the development of insight where the meditator can accept the basic truths of his contemplation without yet having fully apprehended them by mature wisdom. Khanti here signifies the acceptance of difficult to understand doctrines rather than patience in the ordinary sense..."

And from p. 247:

teh Commentary
"...Patience is mentioned after energy:...c)in order to state the causal basis for serenity immediately after the basis for exertion, for restlessness due to excessive activity is abandoned through reflective acquiescence in the Dhamma (dhammanijjhaanakkhanti)..."

The footnote by Bodhi:


"Dhammanijjhaanakkhanti. The word khanti, ordinarily used to mean patience in the sense of forbearance of the wrongs of others and the endurance of hardships, is sometimes also used to signify the intellectual acceptance of doctrines which are not yet completely clear to understanding. Patience thus becomes a virtue not only of the will but of the intellect as well. It is a 'suspension of disbelief' born of trust, a willingness to acquiesce in propositions baffling or even scandalous to the rational understanding in the confidence that the growth of wisdom will transform this acquiescence into clear and certain knowledge. The compound dhammanijjhaanakhanti seems to indicate an intermediate stage in the process of transformation, where the understanding can accept by way of reflection the article initially assented to in faith, without fully
grasping it by immediate insight."




Posted by: robertk2 Jun 8 2009, 01:02 PM
Again thanks to Scott

Sammohavinodanii:


2075. "...Anulomika.m khanti.m ('conformable acceptance') and so on are all synonyms for understanding. For that is in conformity since it conforms by showing non-opposition to the five reasons for the aforesaid sphere of work and so on. Likewise, it is in conformity since it conforms with behaviour beneficial to beings, it conforms to the Truth of the Path and it conforms owing to conforming to the highest meaning, nibbaana. And it accepts (khamati), bears, is able to see all these reasons, thus it is acceptance (khanti). 'It sees' is di.t.thi ('view'). 'It chooses' is ruci ('choice'). 'It perceives with the senses' is muti ('sensing'). 'It observes' is pekkho ('observance'). And all these things (dhamma) called the five aggregates on being studied (nijjhaayamaanaa) again and again in accordance with impermanence, suffering and no-self, accept (khamanti) that study (nijjhaana); thus it is dhammanijjhaanakkhanti ('acceptance of study things').




Posted by: robertk2 Jun 8 2009, 01:10 PM
The Grouped Sayings of the Buddha. Samyutta Nikaya.
Book [V: 95-6] section 46: The Links. 38: Unhindered.

..When, Bhikkhus, a Noble Disciple listens carefully to the Dhamma,
alert with keen ears,
attending to it as a matter of crucial concern, as something of vital
importance, directing
his entire mind to it, in that very moment the Five Mental Hindrances
are absent in him.
On that occasion the Seven Links to Awakening develop towards
complete fulfilment...>

So where is the line between pariyatti and patipatti? It is as I said in the first post - both are cittas with panna but patipatti of satipatthana directly knows the characteristic of a reality. There can be pariyatti and patipatti happening very closely together or alternating.



Posted by: cooran Jun 8 2009, 01:14 PM
Hello robertk2, all,

What is your understanding about whether there can be Right Pariyatti and Right Patipatti? And therefore Wrong Pariyatti and Wrong Patipatti?

metta
cooran


Posted by: robertk2 Jun 8 2009, 01:34 PM

QUOTE(cooran @ Jun 8 2009, 01:14 PM)
Hello robertk2, all,

What is your understanding about whether there can be Right Pariyatti and Right Patipatti? And therefore Wrong Pariyatti and Wrong Patipatti?

metta
cooran





Dear Cooran
I think when it is wrong as patipatti it implies some silabataparamasa - which is an expression of wrongview, whether subtle or gross.
http://www.abhidhamm..._of_the_ten.htm
Anguttara Nikaya Book of the tens XI (iii) 103 Wrongness

From wrong view proceeds wrong thinking; from that wrong speech. From wrong speech, wrong action. From wrong action, wrong living; from that wrong effort. From wrong effort proceeds wrong mindfulness; from that wrong concentration. From wrong concentration proceeds wrong knowledge. From wrong knowledge proceeds wrong release......


From right view proceeds right thinking; from that right speech......right release.

---------------------------------------

Anguttara Nikaya Dasakanipaatapaa.li

. Micchattasutta.m



103. “Micchatta.m, bhikkhave, aagamma viraadhanaa hoti, no aaraadhanaa. Katha~nca, bhikkhave, micchatta.m aagamma viraadhanaa

hoti, no aaraadhanaa? Micchaadi.t.thikassa, bhikkhave, micchaasa"nkappo pahoti, micchaasa"nkappassa micchaavaacaa pahoti, micchaavaa

cassa micchaakammanto pahoti, micchaakammantassa micchaa-aajiivo pahoti, micchaa-aajiivassa micchaavaayaamo pahoti, micchaavaayaa

massa micchaasati pahoti, micchaasatissa micchaasamaadhi pahoti, micchaasamaadhissa micchaa~naa.na.m pahoti, micchaa~naa.nissa ‚04

micchaavimutti pahoti. Eva.m kho, bhikkhave, micchatta.m aagamma viraadhanaa hoti, no aaraadhanaa.

Note that right view is one of the synonyms for panna- wisdom.


And how does panna or right view arise:
In the 'Majjhima nikaya' I (no. 43, Mahavedallasutta) that Kotthita asked Sariputta:


"'But what is intuitive wisdom for, your reverence?' 'Your reverence, intuitive wisdom is for super-knowledge, for apprehending, for getting rid of.' 'But how many conditions are there, your reverence, for bringing right understanding into existence?' 'There are two conditions, your reverence, for bringing right understanding into existence: the utterance of another (person) and wise attention. Your reverence, there are the two conditions for bringing wise attention into existence.'"



Posted by: cooran Jun 8 2009, 02:43 PM

QUOTE(robertk2 @ Jun 8 2009, 03:34 PM)
QUOTE(cooran @ Jun 8 2009, 01:14 PM)
Hello robertk2, all,

What is your understanding about whether there can be Right Pariyatti and Right Patipatti? And therefore Wrong Pariyatti and Wrong Patipatti?

metta
cooran





Dear Cooran
I think when it is wrong as patipatti it implies some silabataparamasa - which is an expression of wrongview, whether subtle or gross.
http://www.abhidhamm..._of_the_ten.htm
Anguttara Nikaya Book of the tens XI (iii) 103 Wrongness

From wrong view proceeds wrong thinking; from that wrong speech. From wrong speech, wrong action. From wrong action, wrong living; from that wrong effort. From wrong effort proceeds wrong mindfulness; from that wrong concentration. From wrong concentration proceeds wrong knowledge. From wrong knowledge proceeds wrong release......


From right view proceeds right thinking; from that right speech......right release.

---------------------------------------

Anguttara Nikaya Dasakanipaatapaa.li

. Micchattasutta.m



103. “Micchatta.m, bhikkhave, aagamma viraadhanaa hoti, no aaraadhanaa. Katha~nca, bhikkhave, micchatta.m aagamma viraadhanaa

hoti, no aaraadhanaa? Micchaadi.t.thikassa, bhikkhave, micchaasa"nkappo pahoti, micchaasa"nkappassa micchaavaacaa pahoti, micchaavaa

cassa micchaakammanto pahoti, micchaakammantassa micchaa-aajiivo pahoti, micchaa-aajiivassa micchaavaayaamo pahoti, micchaavaayaa

massa micchaasati pahoti, micchaasatissa micchaasamaadhi pahoti, micchaasamaadhissa micchaa~naa.na.m pahoti, micchaa~naa.nissa ‚04

micchaavimutti pahoti. Eva.m kho, bhikkhave, micchatta.m aagamma viraadhanaa hoti, no aaraadhanaa.

Note that right view is one of the synonyms for panna- wisdom.


And how does panna or right view arise:
In the 'Majjhima nikaya' I (no. 43, Mahavedallasutta) that Kotthita asked Sariputta:


"'But what is intuitive wisdom for, your reverence?' 'Your reverence, intuitive wisdom is for super-knowledge, for apprehending, for getting rid of.' 'But how many conditions are there, your reverence, for bringing right understanding into existence?' 'There are two conditions, your reverence, for bringing right understanding into existence: the utterance of another (person) and wise attention. Your reverence, there are the two conditions for bringing wise attention into existence.'"






Hello robertk2, all,

Thank you. Then what would you say is the correct way to develop samadhi, or concentration and mental cultivation (i.e. right effort, right mindfulness, and right concentration)?

metta
cooran



Posted by: robertk2 Jun 9 2009, 11:27 AM

QUOTE(cooran @ Jun 8 2009, 02:43 PM)
Thank you. Then what would you say is the correct way to develop samadhi, or concentration and mental cultivation (i.e. right effort, right mindfulness, and right concentration)?

metta
cooran



Good question!
Samma Samadhi,(right concentration), samma vayama (right effort) and samma sati (right mindfulness) are mental factors that always arise if samma ditthi (right view, panna) is present.
However, samadhi and viriya (vayama ) effort, energy are factors that can arise not only without panna but also with akusala such as lobha (desire).

Thus while it is very easy to have effort and concentrate - it is another matter as to wether these factors are arising with panna. If we are not sure then why assume that they would be, knowing just hpw profound the path is.

Surely the the Buddha stesses effort or samadhi as factors of the path but we know he meant those arising with panna, and thus it is panna, right view that we need to work on as this factor brings the correct effort and samadhi with it.
No use having well developed effort or samadhi without panna as one is merely developing more attachment to some wrong path.

As A. Chah puts it:
http://www.buddhanet.net/bodhiny2.htm
Questions & Answers with Ajahn Chah



Question: I'm trying very hard in my practice but don't seem to be getting anywhere.

Answer: This is very important. Don't try to get anywhere in the practice. The very desire to be free or to be enlightened will be the desire that prevents your freedom. You can try as hard as you wish, practise ardently night and day, but if it is still with the desire to achieve in mind, you will never find peace. The energy from this desire will be a cause for doubt and restlessness. No matter how long or how hard you practise, wisdom will not arise from desire. So, simply let go. Watch the mind and body mindfully but don't try to achieve anything. Don't cling even to the practice of enlightenment.


Posted by: robertk2 Jun 9 2009, 11:37 AM
All cittas arise and pass away rapidly . It might seem that citta or vedana can last for split seconds- but actually they are gone even before they are known. However, panna is also a momentary reality that arises and passes away exactly as rapidly as citta. So panna can arise momentarily and know, do some degree, the nature of its object. Impossible for anyone to control this (i) because there is no one and (ii) it is all happening far too quickly.

Knowing this there will be detachment from trying to get something, letting go will happen naturally, and panna can then work its subtle ways. If there is not detachment then there is lobha (attachment) and this is combined with avijja (ignorance ) that is already so powerful. The wrong path becomes dominant and it may cut-off the right path completely.

This is hard to understand, so there is much emphasis on trying to control and putting in effort. But without real understanding effort is counterproductive and is an aspect of wrong path. The pali term patipatti is taken to mean something one does. But genuine patipatti is momentary insight, it is not a matter of where or what one is doing, it is a mental phenomena.


Posted by: robertk2 Today, 09:48 AM
Majjima 117:
Pali added by scott)

"6. And what, bhikkhus, is right view? Right view, I say, is
twofold: there is right view that is affected by the taints, partaking
of merit, ripening in the acquisitions (sammaadi.t.thi saasavaa
pu~n~naabhaagiyaa upadhivepakkaa); and there is right view that is
noble, taintless, supramundane, a factor of the path (sammaadi.t.thi
ariyaa anaasavaa lokuttaraa magga"ngaa).

"7. And what, bhikkhus, is right view that is affected by the taints,
partaking of merit, ripening in the acquisitions? 'There is what is
given (atthi dinna.m) and what is offered (atthi yi.t.tha.m) and what
is sacrificed (atthi huta.m); there is fruit and the result of good
and bad actions (atthi suka.tadukka.taana.m kammaana.m phala.m
vipaako); there is this world (atthi aya.m loko) and the other world
(atthi paro loko); there is mother and father (atthi maataa, atthi
pitaa); there are beings who are reborn spontaneously (atthi sattaa
opapaatikaa); there are in the world good and virtuous recluses and
brahmins who have realised for themselves by direct knowledge and
declare this world and the other world (atthi loke sama.nabraahma.naa
sammaggataa sammaapa.tipannaa).' This is right view affected by the
taints, partaking of merit, ripening in the acquisitions.

"8. And what, bhikkhus, is right view that is noble, taintless,
supramundane, a factor of the path? The wisdom (pa~n~naa), the
faculty of wisdom (pa~n~nindriya.m) , the power of wisdom
(pa~n~naabala.m) , the investigation-of-states enlightenment factor
(dhammavicayasambojjha"ngo), the path factor or right view in one
whose mind is noble, whose mind is taintless, who possesses the noble
path; this is right view that is noble, taintless, supramundane, a
factor of the path (sammaadi.t.thi magga"nga.m aya.m vuccati
bhikkhave, sammaadi.t.thi ariyaa anaasavaa lokuttaraa magga"ngaa)."
=============
Note that mundane right view includes understadning of kamma and vipaka and rebirth. Without this preliminary confidence in the teaching there won't be deeper understanding at the level of satipatthana.




#2 mike

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Posted 11 June 2009 - 02:16 AM

Hi Rob,

Couldn't agree with you more.

mike (with a small 'em'--different geezer).