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transcript 2002 (Dhamma Study and Support Foundation

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#1 RobertK

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 05:14 AM

Dhamma Study Group (1/13/02)
 

with sarah jon, mike, robert
http://www.dhammastu...002-01-13-a.mp3

Jon: (Introduction):
13th of January 2002. Participants include Sukin, Robert, Mike, Ivan, Betty and Amra

Sukin:
The fear for example in my case is Samsara; I mean why do I want to live in Samsara? But then you cannot avoid it.

A.Sujin:
What is Samsara that we are so afraid of?

Sukin:
The Samsara that I have in mind is living normally in everyday life, creating more and more akusala. That's what I fear.

A.Sujin:
Samsara is this moment of seeing, and then this moment of hearing, and moment of thinking. All are absolute realities.

Sukin:
I think of Samsara conceptionally as me involved in Samsara really for a long time it seems... a precept... It's just seeing what it really is which is as like I've said... seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, thinking... just these moments. And they fall away immediately. It's still a perception but it's a different way of seeing it.

Male :
But the problem is sanna arises, right?

Robert:
But sanna is just dhamma too.

A.Sujin:
Sanna is not you. The method is kusala sunya or akusala sunya. But when there's the idea of [INAUDIBLE] clings very much to the self. You don't like akusala. You'd like to have more and more kusala, and you'd like to understand reality instantly or as soon as possible. But that's just not the right course.

Robert:
It seems like the right course because we're used to working towards a goal and with lobha whatever we do in life. So we think that we should have desire for this too we think in that way.

A.Sujin:
Should? Would like to have? What about understanding reality at this moment when it's relieved from all the ideas of wanting or trying to do something for oneself. At this very moment when there's the understanding of reality which experiences visible object. It's just that.

Sukin:
Robert was saying that we're so used to doing... I think it is that intuitive way to ... even when we hear a ajarn talk about what about this moment... we're thinking about catching moments. That's strange.

A.Sujin:
You begin to see attachment closer and closer because one used to think about attachment of sensuous objects. A moment of seeing, hearing... but there is no understanding of attachment at all.
But when you can understand the attachment to have, that is the moment when right understanding can understand attachment. When reality does not arise yet, it's impossible to understand such reality. It's only thinking about attachment... or it's so far to attain such stage of understanding. But when it's now, at this moment, it's very easy to just understand, because you don't think of "I would like to have the understanding".

Just let it be like it should be by conditions.
When there's no awareness, it's no awareness. So there can be the understanding of the moment of being aware when awareness arises.
So that is the development of understanding the moment that will bring more and more understanding of realities.

Sukin:
Its useful to remember that the purpose of starting is detachment.

A.Sujin:
Right Understanding , not only detachment.

Sukin:
I've been thinking... it's been in my mind for a long time and I wanted to ask... from what I gather in bits and pieces from what I heard here and there, it seems that it is not very helpful for example to talk about say the cheating dhammas but for example it would be preferable to talk about sobhana cittas. With the level of panna that I have, when I talk about cheating dhammas it can condition me dosa, whereas if I were discussing sobhana cittas it has a less chance of conditioning dosa at that moment. Is there any such thing?

A.Sujin:
So what would you like to have? See its "I" again.

Sukin:
Yes, but I was thinking about the effect of words... listening... what kind of words...

A.Sujin:
Now we are choosing. What about whatever appears by condition is to be able to understand: the core of anatta-ness. The most important thing is to develop the understanding of anatta-ness. Otherwise we would like to choose or to select.

Robert:
Sometimes don't you feel really that there is no one there, that it's just happening? That the thinking is happening... the seeing... it's so obvious that the seeing happens but also all other things...everything is just happening... no one there really, absolutely.

Sukin:
I can understand that theoretically and sometimes I project into my observation but I'm not sure that I really see it.
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