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Continuity of citta


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#1 RobertK

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Posted 18 June 2006 - 03:06 AM

In a message dated 4/3/02 9:29:41 AM Eastern Standard Time,
robertkirkpatrick@r... writes:

I think it is hard to accept -but nevertheless true - that there is nothing at all in this samsara that does not vanish . What is more it vanishes as soon as it appears, faster than we could imagine. However, because phenomena including 'knowing' (citta,vinnnana, mano consciousness)are immediately replaced with no gap between it seems that the knowing does not fall away. Citta is the chief in knowing .

=========================

Howard: Just one point: Under the assumption that there are, indeed, no gaps, there is a *sense* in which it could be validly said that the function of consciousness is continuous - changing, but continuous. For what would 'continuous' mean other than there being no gaps? (Just a point.)

With metta, Howard
________

Ha ha. Yes in that sense consciousness is continuous. But it is always a different consciousness, formed by different , although sometimes similar, conditions. The Buddha compared consciousness to fire: the fire that burned dependent on sticks, the one that burned dependent on dried dung, the one that burned dependent on oil,.. Different fires but still having the same characteristic of fire; in the same way he said seeing-consciousness is different from hearing consciosness is different from smelling .....But still all having the same charactersitic of knowing. It is because of continuity and because the different consciousness's have the same general nature that we take it as lasting and 'mine'. The Visuddhimagga(XV3)
QUOTE
"The characteristic of impermanence does not become apparent because when rise and fall are not given attention it is concealed by continuity"..However when continuity is disrupted by discerning rise and fall the characterisitic of impermanence becomes apparent in its true nature"


The aspect of anatta is also hard: As you know I've been considering Paticcasamuppada recently: in the Mahanidana sutta atthakatha it says that this is such a deep matter: "Its depth of penetration should be understood ..Deep is the meaning of consciousness as emptiness, absence of an agent.." The tika continues: "Consciousness's meaning of emptiness is deep because consciousness is said to be the distinctive basis for the misapprehension of self. As it is said "for a long time the uninstructed worldling has been attached to this, appropriated it, and misapprehended it thus; 'This is mine this I am , this is self'"(samyutta XII 61 ii94)(bodhi p66)

kind regards

robert
--- End forwarded message ---

#2 RobertK

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Posted 25 July 2006 - 01:28 AM

Life, person, pleasure, pain — just these alone
Join in one conscious moment that flicks by.
Devas, though they live for eighty-four thousand kalpas,
Are not the same for two such moments....

Breakup of dhammas is foredoomed at their birth;
Those present decay, unmingled with those past.
They come from nowhere, break up, nowhere go;
Flash in and out, as lightning in the sky.
(Mahāniddesa 42)


#3 Guest_Scott Duncan_*

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Posted 25 July 2006 - 02:35 AM

QUOTE(RobertK @ Jul 24 2006, 07:28 PM) View Post

Life, person, pleasure, pain — just these alone
Join in one conscious moment that flicks by.
Devas, though they live for eighty-four thousand kalpas,
Are not the same for two such moments....

Breakup of dhammas is foredoomed at their birth;
Those present decay, unmingled with those past.
They come from nowhere, break up, nowhere go;
Flash in and out, as lightning in the sky.
(Mahāniddesa 42)

Beautiful.

S.

#4 RobertK

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Posted 01 March 2011 - 01:47 PM

http://groups.yahoo..../message/113770
The Expositor deals with many meanings of the term arisen, uppanna.
We read:<Of these, all that is endowed with (instants of) genesis,
decay, and dissolution is termed ‘arisen as existing at the present
moment.’>
Thus, kha.na does not refer to life period, nor to serial presence.
It refers to moment in the ultimate sense, namely arising, presence,
and dissolution.
Text Vis. 190: (d) 'According to moment': what is included in the
trio of moments, [that is to say, arising, presence, and dissolution]
beginning with
arising is called 'present'. At a time previous to that it is 'future'.
At a time subsequent to that it is 'past'.
------------------------------
We read in the Dispeller of Delusion (p. 8): <And here only the
exposition beginning with the moment (kha.na) is literal
(nippariyaaya) (cf. M.A. I, 89). The rest are figurative (sapariyaaya).>

Conclusion: When we consider the meaning of kha.na, moment, we are
reminded that the processes of cittas succeed one another extremely
rapidly. In one process seeing arises, and it seems that we
immediately think of a concept of what is seen, of a person or thing.
However, several processes have elapsed before a concept is
experienced in a mind-door process. There is no person who can exert
control over the cittas that arise, perform each their own function
and then fall away immediately.
--------
It seems that cittas last, but the meaning of kha.na, moment, reminds
us of the impermanence of dhammas. As soon as a dhamma has arisen, it
is going towards its cessation, it is gone immediately. When paññaa
arises it does so for an extremely short moment and then it falls
away. However, a moment of paññaa is never lost, it is accumulated so
that there are conditions for its arising again. This exhorts us not
to waste the moments of which our life consists. There can be
accumulation of paññaa at this moment.
-------
Thus, kha.na does not refer to life period, nor to serial presence.
It refers to moment in the ultimate sense, namely arising, presence,
and dissolution.
-----------
Text Vis. 190: (d) 'According to moment': what is included in the
trio of moments, [that is to say, arising, presence, and dissolution]
beginning with
arising is called 'present'. At a time previous to that it is 'future'.
At a time subsequent to that it is 'past'.
------------------------------
N: the first three are sapariyaaya (figurative) and the last one is
nippariyaaya (literal).The last one is in the ultimate sense only.
There were examples: extent, addhaa: a lifespan. Present lifespan,
this is different from the present moment of citta, kha.na.
We can think of death in conventional sense, the end of this
lifespan. But actually there is all the time momentary death,
kha.nika marana, when the present citta falls away. Looking at death
as kha.nika is very realistic! Continuity or serial present
(santati): utu keeps on producing heat and this impinges on the body.
it is a serial presence, but still, the characteristic of heat can be
object of insight.

---------

The Tiika states that as regards feeling, the classifications
according to extent and period has not been spoken of. Feelings are
classified as past, future and present only according to continuity
and to moment.
--------
Text Vis. 197. In the classification (i)-(iii) into 'past', etc., the
past,
future, and present state of feeling should be understood according to
continuity and according to moment and so on.
---------
N: Feeling is naama, and as the Tiika states, naama is quick to
change (lahuparivattino aruupadhammaa).
******
Nina.




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#5 RobertK

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 02:14 PM

SN 1.11 Nandana
Translated by Bhikkhu Bodhi

http://suttacentral.net/sn1.11/en/

Thus have I heard. On one occasion the Blessed One was dwelling at Savatthi in Jetas Grove, Anathapiṇḍikas Park. There the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus thus: Bhikkhus!

Venerable sir! those bhikkhus replied. The Blessed One said this:

Once in the past, bhikkhus, a certain devata of the Tavatiṃsa host was revelling in Nandana Grove, < 11 > supplied and endowed with the five cords of celestial sensual pleasure, accompanied by a retinue of celestial nymphs. On that occasion he spoke this verse:

They do not know bliss
Who have not seen Nandana,
The abode of the glorious male devas
Belonging to the host of Thirty. [19]
When this was said, bhikkhus, a certain devata replied to that devata in verse:

Dont you know, you fool,
That maxim of the arahants?
Impermanent are all formations;
Their nature is to arise and vanish.
Having arisen, they cease:
Their appeasement is blissful. [20]

Notes

[19] Tāvatiṃsa, the realm of the thirty-three, is the third sense-sphere heaven. It is so named because thirty-three youths, headed by the youth Magha, had been reborn here as a result of their meritorious deeds. Magha himself became Sakka, ruler of the devas. Nandana is the Garden of Delight in Tāvatiṃsa, so called because it gives delight and joy to anyone who enters it. According to Spk, this deva had just taken rebirth into this heaven and, while wandering through the Nandana Grove, he spoke the verse as a spontaneous paean of joy over his celestial glory. Spk glosses naradevānaṃ with devapurisānaṃ, devamales; it is clearly not a dvanda compound. Tidasa, the Thirty (lit. triple ten), is a poetic epithet for Tāvatiṃsa.

[20] Spk ascribes this rejoinder to a female deva who was a noble disciple (ariyasāvikā). Thinking, This foolish deva imagines his glory to be permanent and unchanging, unaware that it is subject to cutting off, perishing, and dissolution, she spoke her stanza in order to dispel his delusion. The maxim of the arahants is pronounced by the Buddha at 15:20 (II 193, also at DN II 199,6-7); the deva-king Sakka repeats it on the occasion of the Buddhas parinibbāna (see v. 609). The first line usually reads aniccā vata saṅkhārā rather than, as here, aniccā sabbasaṅkhārā. An identical exchange of verses occurs below at 9:6, with the goddess Jālinı̄ and the Venerable Anuruddha as speakers. The feminine vocative bāle in pāda b implies that the latter dialogue was the original provenance of the verse, or in any case that the first devatā is female.

Spk: Formations here are all formations of the three planes of existence (sabbe tebhūmakasaṅkhārā), which are impermanent in the sense that they become nonexistent after having come to be (hutvā abhāvaṭṭhena aniccā). Their appeasement is blissful (tesaṃ vūpasamo sukho): Nibbāna itself, called the appeasement of those formations, is blissful.

#6 RobertK

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Posted 12 January 2014 - 09:46 AM

http://www.dhammatal...mma_studies.pdf
from nyanaponika on time

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#7 RobertK

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Posted 12 January 2014 - 09:47 AM

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#8 RobertK

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Posted 12 January 2014 - 09:50 AM

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