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#1 RobertK

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Posted 28 April 2007 - 02:13 AM


"Monks I know not of any other single thing so greatly to be blamed
as perverted view. Perverted views at their worst are greatly to be
blamed". Anguttara Nikaya 1,17,10. Chapter XVIII Makkhali (page 29
gradual sayings vol.I)



#2 RobertK

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Posted 14 May 2007 - 02:41 PM

Dhp XXII
Nirayavagga
Hell
316. Those who are ashamed of what they should not be ashamed of, and are not ashamed of what they should be ashamed of — upholding false views, they go to states of woe.

317. Those who see something to fear where there is nothing to fear, and see nothing to fear where there is something to fear — upholding false views, they go to states of woe.

318. Those who imagine evil where there is none, and do not see evil where it is — upholding false views, they go to states of woe.

319. Those who discern the wrong as wrong and the right as right — upholding right views, they go to realms of bliss.


#3 RobertK

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 04:56 AM

http://www.accesstoi...n.057.nymo.html
Here, Seniya, someone develops the ox duty fully and unstintingly, he develops the ox habit fully and unstintingly, he develops the ox mind fully and unstintingly, he develops the ox behavior fully and unstintingly. Having done that, on the dissolution of the body, after death, he reappears in the company of oxen. But if his view is such as this: 'By this virtue or duty or asceticism or religious like I shall become a (great) god or some (lesser) god,' that is wrong view in his case. Now there are two destinations for one with wrong view, I say: hell or the animal womb. So, Seniya, if his ox duty is perfected, it will lead him to the company of oxen; if it is not, it will lead him to hell.

#4 RobertK

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 12:24 PM

296. Bhikkhus, if you develop and make much this one thing, it invariably leads to weariness, cessation, appeasement, realization and extinction. What is it? It is recollecting the Enlightened One. If this single thing is recollected and made much, it invariably leads to weariness, cessation, appeasement, realization and extinction.

297. Bhikkhus, if you develop and make much this one thing, it invariably leads to weariness, cessation, appeasement, realization and extinction. What is it? It is recollecting the Teaching, ... re ... the Community, ... re ... virtues, ... re ... benevolence,. ... re ... gods ... re ... mindfulness of in breaths and out breaths, ... re ... death, ... re ... mindfulness of the body, ... re ... mindfulness of appesement . If this single thing is recollected and made much, it invariably leads to weariness, cessation, appeasement, realization and extinction.

2. Dutiya Vagga

298. Bhikkhus, I do not know of any other thing that arouses non arisen demeritorious thoughts and develops arisen demeritorious thoughts as wrong view. Bhikkhus, to one with wrong view, not arisen demeritorious thoughts arise and arisen demeritorlious thoughts develop and get completed.

299. Bhikkhus, I do not know of any other thing that arouses non arisen meritorious thoughts and develops arisen meritorious thoughts as right view. Bhikkhus, to one with right view, not arisen meritorious thoughts arise and arisen meritorlious thoughts develop and get completed.

300. Bhikkhus, I do not know a single thing on account of which non arisen meritorious thoughts do not arise and arisen meritorious thoughts fade as wrong view. Bhikkhus to one with wrong view non arisen meritorious thoughts do not arise and arisen meritorious thoughts fade. .

301. Bhikkhus, I do not know a single thing on account of which non arisen demeritorious thoughts do not arise and arisen demeritorious thoughts fade as right view. Bhikkhus to one with right view non arisen demeritorious thoughts do not arise and arisen demeritorious thoughts fade.

302. Bhikkhus, I do not know a single thing on account of which non arisen wrong view arises and arisen wrong view develops as unwise thinking. Bhikkhus to one thinking unwisely non arisen wrong view arises and arisen wrong view develops

303. Bhikkhus, I do not know a single thing on account of which non arisen right view arises and arisen right view develops as wise thinking. Bhikkhus to one thinking wisely non arisen right view arises and arisen right view develops

304. Bhikkhus, I do not know a single thing on account of which a person with wrong view, after death is born in decrease, in an evil birth, in hell, as wrong view. Bhikkhus a person with wrong view is born in decrease, in an evil birth, in hell

305. Bhikkhus, I do not know a single thing on account of which a person with right view, after death is born in increase, in a good birth, in heaven, as right view. Bhikkhus a person with right view is born in increase, in a good birth, in heaven.

306. Bhikkhus, to a person with wrong view his bodily, verbal and mental actions would be guided according to the standard of attainment of his view, so too his intentions, wishes, aspirations and determinations. They would be unsuitable, disagreeable, and conducive to unpleasantness. What is the reason? It is because of his wrong view. Bhikkhus, just as a nimba seed, a kosataki seed or a bitter goad seed [1] embedded in wet soil would draw the essence in the soil and water and all that essence would be bitter. In the same manner the bodily, verbal, mental actions, intentions, wishes, aspirations and determinations of a person with wrong view, would be guided according to the standard of attainment of his view and they would be unsuitable, disagreeable and conducive to unpleasantness.

[1] nimba is a kind of tree and kosataki a kind of creeper, they both produces bitter tastes

307Bhikkhus, to a person with right view his bodily, verbal and mental actions would be guided according to the standard of attainment of his view, so too his intentions, wishes, aspirations and determinations. They would be suitable, agreeable, and conducive to pleasantness. What is the reason? It is because of his right view. Bhikkhus, just as a sugar cane seed, a paddy seed or a grape vine seed embedded in wet soil would draw the essence in the soil and water and all that essence would be unmixed and sweet. In the same manner the bodily, verbal, mental actions, intentions, wishes, aspirations and determinations of a person with right view, would be guided according to the standard of attainment of his view and they would be suitable, agreeable and conducive to pleasantness.

3. Tatiya vagga.

308. Bhikkhus, a certain person is born in the world for the harm, bad luck and unpleasantness of many gods and men. Who is it? It is one with wrong and perverted view. He pulls out many from right view and establishes them in wrong view. He is born in the world for the harm, bad luck and unpleasantness of many gods and men.

309. Bhikkhus, a certain person is born in the world for the welfare, good luck and pleasantness of many gods and men. Who is it? It is one with right view and unperverted view. He pulls out many from wrong view and establishes them in right view. He is born in the world for the welfare, good luck and pleasantness of many gods and men.

310. Bhikkhus, I do not know of anything so seriously bad as wrong view. Of bad things, the worst is wrong view.

311. Bhikkhus, I do not know of any other person born in the world to cause such harm, unpleasantness and evil to many gods and men as this foolish man Makkhali. Just as a net cast at the mouth of a river is for the harm, bad luck and destruction of many fish, even so, I think he is born in the world for the harm, unpleasantness and bad luck of many gods and men.

312. Bhikkhus, if the Teaching and Discipline is incorrectly interpreted and caused to be observed much demerit is accrued both by the interpreter and those who observe it on account of the incorrct interpretation of the Teaching.

313. Bhikkhus, if the Teaching and Discipline is correctly interpreted and caused to be observed much merit is accrued both by the interpreter and those who observe it on account of the corrct interpretation of the Teaching.

314. Bhikkhus, when the Teaching and Discipline is incorrectly interpreted, the teacher should know the measure and not the listener, because of the incorrect interpretation of the teaching

315. Bhikkhus, when the Teaching and Discipline is correctly interpreted the listener should know the measure and not the teacher, because of the correct interpretation of the teaching

316. Bhikkhus, when the Teaching and Discipline is incorrectly interpreted, one with aroused effort abides in unpleasantness, because of the incorrcct interpretation of the teaching.

317. Bhikkhus, when the Teaching and Discipline is correctly interpreted one lazy and without aroused effort abides in unpleasantness, because of the correct interpretation of the teaching.

318. Bhikkhus, when the Teaching and Discipline is incorrectly interpreted someone lazy and without aroused effort abides in pleasantness, because of the incorrect interpretation of the teaching.

319. When the Teaching and Discipline is correctly interpreted, one with aroused effort abides in pleasantness, because of the right interpretation of the teaching.

320. Bhikkhus, just as a little bit of excreta smells and should be got rid of, I do not specify thinking even for the fraction of a second.

321. Bhikkhus, just as a little bit of urine, ... re ... saliva, ... re ... pus, ... re ... blood smells and should be got rid of, I do not specify thinking{1) even for the fraction of a second.

Notes.

( 1) I do not specify thinking even for a short second. `appamattakaüpi bhavaü na vaõõemi' Always thoughts seek connections in the past, for the future or in the present. The bhikkhu who aims extinction should not advocte thinking, as thoughts prolong the journey in existence.

 

4. CatutthavaggaVagga.

322. Bhikkhus, in the peninsular of India there are a few pleasant orchards, forests, outstanding sites, stretches of water but many irregular blocks of land, irregular rivers flowing disorderly, forming uneven shapes. Even so, a few are born on land and many in the watery bed.

323. Bhikkhus, in the same manner a handful are born human and many more below humanity.

324. Bhikkhus, a few are born in the states imminent to where the Teaching is heard and many away from the knowledgeable atmosphere.

325. Bhikkhus, a few are born wise with powers to understand what is taught and to eliminate the not essential. Bhikkhus, in the same manner there are a handful endowed with the noble one's wisdom, the rest are ignorant and lack that wisdom.

326. Bhikkhus, a few are lucky enough to see the Blessed One, the others are not so lucky.

327. Bhikkhus, a few hear the Blessed One's Teaching. The rest are not so lucky.

328. Bhikkhus, a handful hear the Teaching and bear it in mind, the rest forget it.

329. Bhikkhus,a few hearing the Teaching peruse it, many others do not tarry to think about what they heard.

330. Bhikkhus, a few learn the Teaching and fall to the method of living according to it, many others do not care to do it.

331. Bhikkhus, a few are shaken with religious emotion in a circumstance many others do not stir whatever the circumstance may be.

332. Bhikkhus, a few stirred by religious emotion, make effort to overcome unpleasantness, there are many others who do nothing about it.

333. Bhikkhus, a few change their object of concentration and gain one point of mind. There are others who do not reach one point of mind when they change the object of concentration.

334. In the same way bhikkhus, a few are fed on the most excellent food and the rest feed on whatever available crumbs.

335. Bhikkhus, a few find access to the meanings of the Teaching and the bliss of release, others do not experience release. Therefore bhikkhus, you should train to see the meanings in the Teaching to experience the bliss of release.

336. Bhikkhus, in the peninsular of India there are a few pleasant orchards, forests, outstanding sites, stretches of water but many irregular blocks of land, irregular rivers flowing disorderly, forming uneven shapes. In the same manner a few humans who leave the human corpse are born among humans many more are reborn in hell, in the animal world and as ghosts.

337. In the same manner a few gods that leave divinity are reborn among gods many more are reborn in hell, in the animal world and as ghosts.

338. In the same manner a few gods that leave divinity are reborn as humans, many more are reborn in hell, in the animal world and as ghosts.

339. Bhikkhus, in the same manner a few released from hell are reborn human, many more are reborn in hell, in the animal world and as ghosts.

340. Bhikkhus, a few released from hell are reborn with the gods, many more are reborn in hell, in the animal world and as ghosts. In the same manner a few who leave behind the animal world are reborn as humans, many more are reborn in hell, in the animal world and as ghosts. In the same manner a few who leave behind the animal world are reborn as gods, many more are reborn in hell, in the animal world and as ghosts. In the same manner a few ghosts are reborn among humans, many more are reborn in hell, in the animal world and as ghosts. In the same manner a few ghosts are reborn among gods, many more are reborn in hell, in the animal world and as ghosts.

 
http://metta.lk/tipi...ammapali-e.html

#5 RobertK

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Posted 24 September 2013 - 04:09 PM

from Dhammanando


http://www.dhammawhe...hp?f=16&t=18651
1. “Great king, there is no giving, no offering, no liberality.”

This is the doctrine of kammic inefficacy (akiriyavāda). These actions yield no fruit.

2. “There is no fruit or ripening of kammas well-done and ill-done.”

Also akiriyavāda.

3. “There is no present world.”

The doctrine of annihilation (ucchedavāda): for beings existing now there is no future world to be attained by kamma.

4. “No world beyond.”

Haphazardism / acausalism (ahetukavāda): the coming into existence of beings in the future will be causeless and not the result of kammas performed by beings existing now.

5. “No mother and no father.”

Akiriyavāda: the performance of right and wrong conduct towards one’s parents yields no fruit. This is according to the Dīgha commentary. Other texts identify it with moral nihilism (natthikavāda): there is no obligation for anyone to practise filial piety.

6. “No beings who have taken rebirth.”

Ahetukavāda. Reiterates #4 but applying the claim to beings in general, not just future ones.

N.B. Although many have translated “natthi sattā opapātikā” as “there are no beings of spontaneous arising”, in the present context the commentators take it to refer to the denial of rebirth in general and not just the denial of devas, petas, hell-beings, etc.

7. “In the world there are no samaṇas or brāhmaṇas of right attainment and right practice who explain this world and the world beyond on the basis of their own direct knowledge and realization.”

Ariyūpavāda (slandering of nobles). The Dīgha commentary doesn’t remark on this passage. The Vinaya commentary treats it as an expression of verbal misconduct rather than wrong view.

8. A person is made of the four great primaries. When he dies the earth [in his body] returns to and merges with the [external] body of earth; the water [in his body] returns to and merges with the [external] body of water; the fire [in his body] returns to and merges with the [external] body of fire; the air [in his body] returns to and merges with the [external] body of air. His sense faculties pass over into space. Four men carry the corpse along on a bier. His eulogies are sounded until they reach the charnel ground. His bones turn pigeon-coloured.”

Ucchedavāda.

9. “His meritorious offerings end in ashes.”

Akiriyavāda.

10. “The practice of giving is a foolish convention. Those who proclaim a doctrine of moral obligation speak only vain, empty prattle.”

Natthikavāda.

Commentary: “This practice of giving has been prescribed by fools and ignoramuses, not by the wise. Fools give, the wise take.”

11. “With the breaking up of the body, fools and sages alike are annihilated and utterly perish. Beyond death they exist no more.

Ucchedavāda.
____________________________________________

The commentary, discussing Ajita’s views in relation to those of Pūraṇa Kassapa and Makkhali Gosāla, remarks:

Among these, Pūraṇa, with his statement “By doing so there is no evil,” denies kamma [because of his doctrine of the inefficacy of action]. Ajita, with the statement “One is annihilated with the breakup of the body,” denies vipāka [because he completely rejects a future re-arising]. Makkhali, with his statement, “There is no cause [for the purification of beings],” etc., denies both.

By denying kamma one denies its vipāka [because there is no vipāka when there is no kamma]. By denying vipāka one denies kamma [because when there is no result, kamma becomes inefficacious]. Thus all these thinkers, by denying both kamma and vipāka, in effect espouse acausalism (ahetukavāda), the inefficacy of kamma (akiriyavāda), and moral nihilism (natthikavāda).
(adapted from Bhikkhu Bodhi's translation of the Sāmaññaphalasutta and commentary)

So although it’s the fashion to call Ajita a “materialist”, I think that from the commentarial point of view this designation —though not wrong— rather misses the point. Where a teacher espouses a plurality of wrong views, he will be most aptly denoted by whichever of these serves as the prōton pseudos. In the case of Ajita this clearly consists in his denial of vipāka, making “akiriyavādin” the fittest name for him.

#6 RobertK

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 05:29 AM

compendium of abhidhamma p.207
"Wrong view(micchaadi.t.thi) becomes a full course of action when it assumes the form of one of the morally nihilistic views which deny the validity of ethics and the retributive consequences of action. Three such views are mentioned often inthe Sutta Pitaka:

(i) nihilism(natthika-di.t.thi), which denies the survival of the personality in any form after death, thus negating the moral significance of deeds.

(ii) the inefficacy of action view(akiriya-di.t.thi), which claims that deeds have no efficacy in producing results and thus invalidates moral distinctions;

and (iii) the acausality view (ahetuka-di.t.thi), which states that there is no course or condition for the defilement and purification of beings, that beings are defiled by chance, fate, or necessity."

#7 RobertK

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 10:35 AM

By Sarah

http://groups.yahoo....ns/topics/64562

To add to your discussions on the meaning of 'natthika ditthi' in
particular, let me quote from some of the excellent detail in this text,
translated by B.Bodhi:

In fact, these 3 kinds of serious wrong view all amount to the same: a
denial of kamma bringing results.

(Here, Cy refers to the commentary to the Saama~n~naphala Sutta above,
and Sub-Cy to the sub-commentary to it)
*****
"An overview of the three doctrines

Cy: Among these, Purana, with his statement 'By doing so there is no
evil,' denies kamma [because of his doctrine of the inefficiency of
action]. Ajita, with his statement 'One is annihilated with the breakup
of the body,' denies kammic results [because he completely rejects a
future re-arising]. Makkhali, with his statement 'There is no cause,' etc.
denies both.
...
Sub Cy: (He denies both) because by completely denying the cause, the
fruit also is rejected. When he asserts 'Beings are defiled and purified
without any cause or condition,' his assertion of the conditionless nature
of defilement and purification rejects the result as much as it rejects
kamma; thus he denies both kamma and its result.
...
Cy: By denying kamma one denies its result [because there is no result
when there is no kamma]. By denying the result one denies kamma [because
when there is no result, kamma becomes inefficacious]. Thus all these
thinkers, by denying both (kamma and its results), in effect espouse
acausalism (ahetukavaada), the inefficacy of action (akiriyavaada), and
moral nihilism (natthikavaada).
...
Sub Cy: Although these three theorists have come down separately in the
texts by way of the explanation of their individual views, they all deny
both (kamma and its result); and by denying both, they all expound
acausalism, etc. For the moral nihilist, espousing annihilationism by his
denial of the result, in effect expounds the inefficacy of action by his
denial of kamma and acausalism by his denial of both. The same method with
the other two."
*****
Sarah: As I suggested the other day, in effect all 3 views amount to the
same - they are all denying the law of kamma and this is the most
dangerous kind of wrong view.
*****
The text continues:

"Cy: When people accept these theories and then recite and investigate
them while sitting in their day-quarters or night-quarters, wrong
mindfulness becomes established, taking as object (one of the three
views): 'No evil is done,' or 'There is no cause or condition,' or 'The
dead are annihilated.' The mind becomes one-pointed. The impulsions
[javana cittas] run their course. At the first impulsion these people are
curable; and so too at the second, etc. But at the seventh they cannot be
cured even by the Buddha; they cannot be turned back. [S: i.e they cannot
be 'cured', because it's impossible to prevent the 7th javana following].

Someone might espouse one view among these three, another two, another
three. But whether one espouses one, two, or three views, one adopts a
wrong view with fixed consequences. One has met an obstruction to the path
to heaven and an obstruction to the path to liberation. It is impossible
for him to reach heaven immediately following the present existence, much
less to reach liberation. This being has become a stump in the round of
existence, a watchman of the earth. Generally, one like this does not
emerge from existence.

Therefore a person with discernment
Desirous of his spiritual growth
Should keep far away from such harmful people
As one would avoid a venomous snake."
*****
Sarah: I'd like to type out just a little more, because of the helpful
passages on how wrong awareness, wrong concentration and wrong view
develop -- and are so very easily taken for 'right'
*****
"Sub Cy: 'Wrong mindfulness becomes established' (micchaasati
santi.t.thati): wrong mindfulness is the craving associated with the
theory, and it is this which becomes established. For through oral
tradition one first apprehends the general meaning of the view 'by doing
so there is no evil,' etc. One then ponders that meaning with various
reasons until it appears as cogent to the mind as if it possessed concrete
form.

By becoming accustomed to such a view over a long period of time, one
arrives as a reflective acquiescence in it, thinking 'It is true.' When,
again and again, one habitually indulges in and cultivates the view that
has been accepted as true through reflective acquiescence, wrong thought
directs craving to that view, with wrong effort reinforcing the craving;
thus one apprehends things as having a nature which they do not really
have. Thence it is the craving associated with the theory that is called
wrong mindfulness.

'The mind becomes one-pointed': by gaining such particular conditions as
applied thought, etc., the mind becomes steadied on its object; it
abandons diffuseness and becomes one-pointed, as if absorbed. 'Wrong
concentration' (micchaasamaadhi) is spoken of under the heading of 'mind'.
For that concentration, gaining the power of the development through
special conditions, performs the function of pervertedly concentrating the
mind on its object, as in the case of sharp-shooting archers, etc."
*****
Sarah: Often we point to the obvious danger and harm of performing akusala
kamma patha through body and speech. However, we shouldn't underestimate
the danger of such wrong views either, such as these, which become more
and more entrenched and have serious repercussions.



#8 RobertK

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 06:07 AM

Dear Rob E,
Op 14 apr 2014, om 03:08 heeft <epsteinrob@...> <epsteinrob@...> het volgende geschreven:

> N: In the Expositor: covetousness (planning to take away what belong to someone else, for example), ill will (planning to harm or kill), wrong view (the views pertaining to: there is no kamma, no result of kamma, which are dangerous.) RE: So these are mental kammapatha? And do they bring results?
--------
N: Yes, kamma patha brings result, it can be result as rebirth-consciousness in an sorrowful plane of existence.
------
Nina.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#9 RobertK

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Posted 29 August 2015 - 06:47 AM

“And what is failure in view? Here, someone holds wrong view and has an incorrect perspective thus : ‘There is nothing given, nothing sacrificed, nothing offered; there is no [269] fruit or result of good and bad actions; there is no this world, no other world; there is no mother, no father; there are no beings spontaneously reborn; there are in the world no ascetics and brahmins of right conduct and right practice who, having realized this world and the other world for themselves by direct knowledge, make them known to others.’ This is called failure in view. “Because of failure in virtuous behavior, with the breakup of the body, after death, beings are reborn in the plane of misery, in a bad destination , in the lower world, in hell. Because of failure in mind … Because of failure in view, with the breakup of the body, after death, beings are reborn in the plane of misery, in a bad destination, in the lower world, in hell.

 

 

 
  (2012-11-13). The Numerical Discourses of the Buddha: A Complete Translation of the Anguttara Nikaya (Teachings of the Buddha) (Kindle Locations 6803-6810). Wisdom Publications. Kindle Edition. 


#10 RobertK

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Posted 29 August 2015 - 06:49 AM

27 (7) 245 “Bhikkhus, for one who holds wrong view one of two destinations is to be expected: hell or the animal realm.”
 
  (2012-11-13). The Numerical Discourses of the Buddha: A Complete Translation of the Anguttara Nikaya (Teachings of the Buddha) (Kindle Locations 2843-2845). Wisdom Publications. Kindle Edition.