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Pilgrimage India, Alone with Dhamma, no 1

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#1 Virgo

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 10:06 PM

http://groups.yahoo....ns/topics/54380

 

In dhammastudygroup, Yahoo Group, Nina Van Gorkom wrote:
 
  • nina van gorkom
     
    Message 1 of 5 , Jan 6, 2006
    Alone with Dhamma

    Pilgrimage in India, October 2005.

    Chapter 1

    Alone with Dhamma

    ³We live alone in the world², this was one of the striking points Acharn
    Sujin explained to us during our pilgrimage in India with hundred and twenty
    Dhamma-friends from Thailand and elsewhere.

    We read in the Kindred Sayings (IV, 144, Kindred Sayings on Sense, § 165,
    Abandoning Wrong View, translated by Ven. Bodhi) that the Buddha said:

    ³Bhikkhu, when one knows and sees the eye as impermanent, wrong view is
    abandoned. When one knows and sees forms as impermanent... eye-consciousness
    as impermanent... eye-contact as impermanent... whatever feeling arises with
    mind-contact as condition... as impermanent, wrong view is abandoned. It is
    when one knows and sees thus that wrong view is abandoned.²

    The Buddha spoke thus with regard to all dhammas appearing through the six
    doorways. 
    When a person dies we may think about the impermanence of life, but this is
    not the realization of the truth of impermanence, the truth that each
    reality that arises because of its appropriate conditions falls away. The
    Buddha teaches us what life really is: it is one moment of experiencing an
    object through one of the six doorways, the doorways of the senses and the
    mind-door. Visible object, sound, these are dhammas appearing at this
    moment, but we are ignorant of the truth.

    Acharn Sujin said that we live alone in the world, that we believe that
    there are many people around us, but that this is thinking. It is hard to
    accept this truth. Citta thinks of relatives and friends who exist. However,
    in the ultimate sense, a person is citta, cetasika and rúpa. Citta is
    consciousness, cetasikas are the mental factors arising with the citta, and
    rúpa are physical phenomena. Seeing is a citta, hearing is another citta and
    thinking again another citta. Citta and the accompanying cetasikas arise and
    then fall away immediately and also the rúpas of which the body consists
    arise and fall away.
    Understanding that in the ultimate sense a person is impermanent mental
    phenomena and bodily phenomena does not mean that there cannot be kindness
    and compassion for others. On the contrary, the Buddha exhorted us to
    develop all kinds of kusala and to assist our fellowmen. However, at the
    same time we can develop understanding of what life really is: the
    experience of one object through one of the six doors. When there is less
    clinging to my personality¹ we shall be more concerned for other people¹s
    welfare. 
    Acharn Sujin explained that we are born alone: the rebirth-consciousness is
    a citta that arises and falls away and is succeeded by a following citta.
    There cannot be more than one citta at a time. We see alone, we think alone,
    we sleep alone, we die alone. The citta that falls away never returns; after
    passing away from this plane there is no return of the same individual.
    Whenever citta arises, it experiences one object and then falls away
    immediately. When visible object appears we take it immediately as this
    person or my friend, but that is thinking on account of the experience of
    visible object. The Buddha taught about all dhammas appearing through the
    six doors, and during our pilgrimage this was a topic of discussion time and
    again.

    ******
    Nina.
     
  • Jonothan Abbott
     
    Message 2 of 5 , Jan 6, 2006
    Hi Nina

    Great to see this series come up. And for those of us who were on the 
    trip, pleasant memories also.

    Jon
     


#2 Virgo

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    leading member

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    That one doesn't regret having done,
    That results in joy
    And delight.

    - Dhammapada Verse 68

Posted 03 October 2013 - 10:07 PM

  • gazita2002
    Jan 7, 2006
     
    dear Nina,

    thank you so much for this timely post. Today was one of those 
    really dreadful days at work, totally too busy, not enuff nurses to 
    do the job blah, blah, blah. Came home from work feeling really 
    despondent and read this......

    yes, 'we' are alone, just citta, cetasika, rupa.
    despite the tensions at work, I believe knowing this sooo helps. 
    To be friendly towards people who are very stressed, certainly 
    improves the situation. 

    Of course, its not so easy when I am the stressed one! however, 
    that's life, and it does help me to read a post like this.
    thank you, thank you Nina

    Patience, courage and good cheer,
    Azita.

     
  • Phil
     
    Jan 7, 2006
     
    > Acharn Sujin said that we live alone in the world, that we believe 
    that
    > there are many people around us, but that this is thinking. It is 
    hard to
    > accept this truth. 
     
     
    Ph: To paraphrase Tom from one of the talks, it seems to me easy 
    to accept it, or believe it intellectually, and be comforted by it 
    in a shallow way, but to really understand it, to know directly that 
    there are only nama and rupa - this seems so very far away. I tend 
    to think that no matter how much understanding I develop in the 
    years to come, when it comes down to parting from Naomi, all the 
    understanding I have accumulated will all vanish and I'll be left 
    clinging painfully to a person who seems ever so real to me.

    But the understanding will still be accumulated and carried on to 
    future lives, so if the natural accumulated tendency to cling to 
    people has its day, so be it. It is just one kind of accumulated 
    tendency. Panna is also accumulating. 

    And as A. Sujin said when you talked about the "cold shower" of 
    hearing that our loved ones are just nama and rupa - "it's the 
    truth, it's the truth....nobody can change the Buddha's word." The 
    truth is the truth. 

    Phil
     
  • nina van gorkom
     
    Message 5 of 5 , Jan 8, 2006
    Hi Phil,
    op 07-01-2006 13:53 schreef Phil op philco777@...:
    >> Acharn Sujin said that we live alone in the world, that we believe
    > that
    >> there are many people around us, but that this is thinking. It is
    > hard to
    >> accept this truth.

    > Ph: I tend to think that no matter how much understanding I develop in the
    years to come, when it comes down to parting from Naomi, all the
    understanding I have accumulated will all vanish and I'll be left clinging
    painfully to a person who seems ever so real to me.

    > But the understanding will still be accumulated and carried on to
    > future lives, so if the natural accumulated tendency to cling to
    > people has its day, so be it. It is just one kind of accumulated
    > tendency. Panna is also accumulating.
    ------
    N: I feel the same about parting from Lodewijk. But you gave the answer.
    Understanding cannot take away the pain. Only when one has become an
    anaagaamii, there is no more clinging to persons, to sense objects. This
    means also: no more sadness on account of these.
    So, we should know that there is sadness for us. At the moment of
    understanding dhammas the citta is kusala and there is no sadness.
    We should think of the suttas in Nidaanavagga (S.N. II) about the ocean of
    tears. 

    ------
    Ph: > And as A. Sujin said when you talked about the "cold shower" of
    > hearing that our loved ones are just nama and rupa - "it's the
    > truth, it's the truth....nobody can change the Buddha's word." The
    > truth is the truth.
    -----
    N: We can see the value of knowing the truth. Even when the truth is bitter.
    It is useless to deceive ourselves and to live with delusion.
    Nina.






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