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can vipassan arise if one still has doubts about kamma and rebirth?


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#1 RobertK

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Posted 12 June 2009 - 04:27 AM

from Dhammanando
http://www.dhammawhe...php?f=19&t=1566
Re: Rebirth in clasical theravada
by Dhammanando Thu Jun 11, 2009 3:23 pm




The orthodox understanding is that they have to be taught mundane right view in order to make them ready for ariyan right view. That is to say, there is no possibility of leaping from a state in which wrong view ("there is nothing given, nothing offered...etc.") is ever liable to arise to ariyan right view. Rather, wrong view must be dislodged and the only cause that can effect this is the arising of mundane right view ("there is what is given, there is what is offered...etc."). In effect this means that high attainment in Dhamma is out of the question for those who remain skeptical, agnostic or non-committal regarding the affirmations that constitute mundane right view.

Kammic efficacy and rebirth are part of mundane right view. To reject or doubt rebirth is to suppose that there are some causes that don't yield effects specifically, that there can be ignorance and craving that will not issue in further becoming. Those of such a view have not understood the conditionality of dhammas even at the intellectual/pariyatti level. To not understand this is to not understand the four noble truths, the three characteristics, or anything else that is of decisive importance in the development of paā.

Best wishes,
Dhammanando Bhikkhu


#2 mike

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Posted 13 June 2009 - 04:49 PM

QUOTE(RobertK @ Jun 11 2009, 09:27 PM) View Post

from Dhammanando
http://www.dhammawhe...php?f=19&t=1566
Re: Rebirth in clasical theravada
by Dhammanando Thu Jun 11, 2009 3:23 pm
The orthodox understanding is that they have to be taught mundane right view in order to make them ready for ariyan right view. That is to say, there is no possibility of leaping from a state in which wrong view ("there is nothing given, nothing offered...etc.") is ever liable to arise to ariyan right view. Rather, wrong view must be dislodged and the only cause that can effect this is the arising of mundane right view ("there is what is given, there is what is offered...etc."). In effect this means that high attainment in Dhamma is out of the question for those who remain skeptical, agnostic or non-committal regarding the affirmations that constitute mundane right view.

Kammic efficacy and rebirth are part of mundane right view. To reject or doubt rebirth is to suppose that there are some causes that don't yield effects specifically, that there can be ignorance and craving that will not issue in further becoming. Those of such a view have not understood the conditionality of dhammas even at the intellectual/pariyatti level. To not understand this is to not understand the four noble truths, the three characteristics, or anything else that is of decisive importance in the development of paā.

Best wishes,
Dhammanando Bhikkhu


Bhante (and Robert),

Thanks for this. I've just been discussing this subject on another list. It has since occurred to me that what I think is sometimes referred to as 'the suttanta method' of the teachings--the stories in the Sutta- and Vinaya-pi.takas involving Buddhas, gods, devas, people, places, things, events and so on--are data referring (ultimately) to the quanta of the dhammas. Without the data we wouldn't know about the underlying quanta, it seems to me.

Does this sound right to you?

Thanks Again,

mike