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A Discussion on Anusaya, the latent tendencies

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#1 Virgo

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 11:17 PM

http://groups.yahoo....ns/topics/27710

 

In Dhammastudygroup, Yahoo Group, Robert K wrote:

 

  • rjkjp1
     
    Message 1 of 19 , Dec 5, 2003
    --- In dhammastudygroup@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Beisert" 
    <mbeisert@h...> wrote:
    > Hello RobertK,

    > RobertK:
    > Latent tendencies (anusaya) are subtle defilements that lie
    > dormant 'waiting' for the opportunity to arise as pariyutthana 
    where
    > they are active forms of craving, dosa and wrong view.

    > Michael:
    > This description gives the (wrong) impression that the anusaya are 
    not 
    > subject to change and may even have some sort of substance. So, 
    which would 
    > be a proper description that would dispel this impression? Is 
    there 
    > something in the commentaries to this effect?
    ===================================
    Dear Michael,
    the whole of the Tipitaka and commentaries show and detail how 
    every phenomena is conditioned - except for nibbana. Anusaya are 
    certainly conditioned.
    The anusaya are:
    lust for sense pleasure (kamaraganusaya) 
    the latent tendency of aversion (patighanusaya) 
    the latent tendency of conceit (mananusaya) 
    the latent tendency of wrong view (ditthanusaya) 
    the latent tendency of doubt (vicikicchanusaya) 
    the latent tendency of lust for becoming (bhava-raganusaya) 
    the latent tendency of ignorance (avijjanusaya)

    If there were no anusaya then there could be no conditions for any 
    greed , wrong view or aversion. The arahants have eradicated all 
    anusaya. 
    Before knowing the Buddha`s teaching we used to think 'I' am angry, 
    or greedy or bored. But these phenomena are only pariyutthana - the 
    active stage of the defilements conditioned by anusaya- not us.
    There are many types of spritual pratice in the world but even the 
    best - except for vipassana- only supress the outward signs of 
    defilements, they do not even touch the anusaya:
    The Visuddhimagga (XXII, 60) 
    ... For it is owing to their inveteracy that they are called 
    inherent tendencies (anusaya) since they inhere (anusenti) as cause 
    for the arising of greed for sense desires, etc., again and again."


    What are the conditions for the anusaya? Here is a section from the 
    Mahanidana sutta commentary, (from bodhi The
    great discourse on causationp65)about Paticcasamupadda:
    Deep is the meaning of volitional formations as volitionally
    forming, accumulating, lustfulness, and lustlessness.
    Almost every moment there is the accumulating of new tendencies.
    Now perhaps we are kind, polite people but tendencies change - and 
    next life we may be born somewhere we we cannot hear dhamma and we 
    gradually develop strong tendencies to roughness and stupidity.

    How are the tendencies eradicated? Only by clear seeing (vipassana). 
    The first anusaya to be eradicated is wrong view, and this too is a 
    gradual process of wearing away. 

    Accumulating is happening right now - the accumulating of
    understanding (or not) that can be a condition as upanissiya paccaya
    (support condition) or asevena paccya (repetition condition) for
    more understanding and so it keeps accumulating until there are
    enough conditions for insight to arise. Not by self or wanting
    or freewill but by the right conditions.

    RobertK
     
  • Michael Beisert
     
    Message 2 of 19 , Dec 6, 2003
    Hello RobertK,

    RobertK:
    the whole of the Tipitaka and commentaries show and detail how
    every phenomena is conditioned - except for nibbana. Anusaya are
    certainly conditioned

    Michael:
    Thank you for the very detailed explanation. I wasn't questioning that but 
    just the use of the words 'lying dormant' which may give the impression that 
    you are referring to something that is substantial and not 
    conditioned/impermanent phenomena. Just being picky maybe :)

    Metta
    Michael

 



#2 Virgo

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 11:18 PM

  • jkjp1
     
    Dec 6, 2003
    --- In dhammastudygroup@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Beisert" 
    <mbeisert@h...> wrote:
    that but 
    impression that 
     
    Dear Michael,
    Thanks, understood:)
    I want to add as many details as possible, as I would be very happy 
    if you come to see that the monks of old were true to the Dhamma - 
    as recorded in the commentaries of Buddhaghosa, Dhammapala and 
    Anuruddha:)
    robertk

     

     
  • upasaka@aol.com
     
    Dec 6, 2003
    Hi, Michael (and Robert) -

    In a message dated 12/6/03 7:52:26 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
    mbeisert@... writes:

    > Michael:
    > Thank you for the very detailed explanation. I wasn't questioning that but 
    > just the use of the words 'lying dormant' which may give the impression that 

    > you are referring to something that is substantial and not 
    > conditioned/impermanent phenomena. Just being picky maybe :)
    ===========================
    I believe that "latent/dormant tendencies" rise and fall all the time, 
    with subsequent tendencies being conditioned by previous ones in much the 
    same way as the last mindstate in a "life" conditions the first mindstate of the 
    next, and in much the same way as the motion of one billiard ball conditions 
    the moving af another. It is not a matter of "the same tendency" continuing, 
    though subsequent tendencies are often little different in form/pattern from 
    prior ones. (But I agree that the terminology is off-putting, being suggestive of 
    substantiality and permananence.)

    With metta,
    Howard

    /Thus is how ye shall see all this fleeting world: A star at dawn, a bubble 
    in a stream, a flash of lightning in a summer cloud, a flickering lamp, a 
    phantom, and a dream./ (From the Diamond Sutra) 

     
  • Sarah
     
    Message 5 of 19 , Dec 8, 2003
    Hi RobM & All,

    --- robmoult <rob.moult@...> wrote: 
     
    ....
    This clarifies;-) I would probably refer to the sensuous greed as the
    outcome of the accumulated anusaya, acting as decisive support condition,
    but Im probably just quibbling;-).

    RobertK also quoted from the Vism on anusaya:

    >The Visuddhimagga (XXII, 60) 
    ... For it is owing to their inveteracy that they are called 
    inherent tendencies (anusaya) since they inhere (anusenti) as cause for
    the arising of greed for sense desires, etc., again and again."
    *****

    RobM, I have a few gems for you, I hope;-) You started off by mentioning
    that the term pakatupanissaya only occurs in the Patthana and you were
    looking for expressions of the inter-connectedness of pakatupanissaya and
    anusaya elsewhere. As I mentioned before, I think we read about this
    frequently in the suttas, albeit in other terms and albeit with an
    understanding of Abhidhamma necessary to appreciate the suttas in
    question.

    Ken O introduced one good example in a discussion thread on practice and
    control/lack of control with Howard. He wrote:

    >Just the chinese sayings wu wei er wei (no action yet there is 
    action) literal translation. I would to share this interesting sutta
    paragraph with you

    http://www.accesstoi...a/sn12-038.html

    "But when one doesn't intend, arrange, or obsess [about anything], there
    is no support for the stationing of consciousness. There being no support,
    there is no landing of consciousness. When that consciousness doesn't land
    & grow, there is no production of renewed becoming in the future. When
    there is no production of renewed becoming in the future, there is no
    future birth, aging & death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, distress, or
    despair. Such is the cessation of this entire mass of suffering & stress."

    *****
    This is the third section, the end of the short sutta.

    I looked at B.Bodhis translation which starts off:

    ...Bhikkhus, what one intends, and what one plans, and whatever one has a
    tendency towards: this becomes a basis for the maintenance of
    consciousness.... Such is the origin of this whole mass of suffering

    BB adds extensive commentary notes (SN, p767f) which show the importance
    of appreciation of conditions and anusaya (latent tendencies). Howard &
    Christine may find this useful too:

    Spk [comy]: Here, the phrase one intends (ceteti) includes all
    wholesome and unwholesome volition of the three planes; one plans
    (pakappeti), the mental fabrications of craving and views
    (ta.nhaadi.t.thikappaa) in the eight cittas accompanied by greed [Spk-p.t
    [sub-comy]: the fabrications of views occur only in the four cittas
    associated with views]; and whatever one has a tendency towards
    (anuseti) ***implies the underlying tendencies(anusaya) under the
    headings of conascence and decisive support conditions for the twelve
    (unwholesome) volitions***.[see CMA 1:4-7]

    This becomes a basis (aaramma.nam eta.m hoti): These various states such
    as volition become a condition (paccaya). for the maintenance of
    consciousness (vi~n~naa.nassa .thitiyaa): for the purpose of maintaining
    the kammic consciousness........

    BB adds that AN 1 223-24 explains the process of renewed existence in
    similar terms. He adds that anuseti clearly refers to the anusaya or
    underlying tendencies, including the tendency to ignorance and craving.

    He also writes (and Im abbreviating a lot here) that in this sutta the
    terms ***aaramma.na and pati.t.thaa denote the decisive-support condition
    (upanissayapacccaya) for consciousness***, while in the two suttas in the
    Khandhasa.myutta they denote the conascence and support conditions
    (sahajaatapaccaya, nissayapaccaya).

    The sub-comy to the next section may be of interest to Ken H too.

    In the sutta we read:

    If, bhikkhus, one does not intend, and one does not plan, but one still
    has a tendency towards something, this becomes a basis for the maintenance
    of consciousness........Such is the origin of this whole mass of
    suffering.

    Spk: this refers to a moment when there is no occurrence of [wholesome
    and unwholesome] volition of the three planes, and no occurrence of the
    mental fabrications of craving and views. but one still has a tendency:
    by this the underlying tendencies are included because they have not been
    abandoned here in the resultants of the three planes........As long as the
    underlying tendencies exist, they become a condition for the kammic
    consciousness, for there is no way to prevent its arising.

    Spk-p.t: This second section is stated to show that wholesome and
    unwholesome kamma capable of producing rebirth is accumulated in the
    preliminary portion (of the path of practice), and that even without
    planning (through craving and views), the volitions of insight meditation
    in a meditator who has seen the dangers in existence are still conditioned
    by the underlying tendencies and are capable of generating rebirth. It is
    also stated to show that even when wholesome and unwholesome states are
    not occurring there is still an establishing of kammic consciousness with
    underlying defilements as condition; for so long as these have not been
    abandoned they lie latent in the existing resultants of the three planes,
    etc.

    In the third section, quoted by Ken O at the start, the function of the
    path of arahantship (arahattamaggassa kicca.m) is discussed whereby the
    anusayas have been eradicated. By path, clearly the magga citta is being
    referred to. Spk-p.t: the nine supramundane states can be said because
    the underlying tendencies are extirpated by the series of paths, and the
    fruits follow immediately upon the paths, and Nibbana is the object of
    both.

    There is a lot more that could be discussed here, but Ill wait for any
    further comments. Many thanks to you all for prompting these quotes and
    further reflections. 

    As RobertK wrote:

    >Accumulating is happening right now - the accumulating of
    understanding (or not) that can be a condition as upanissiya paccaya
    (support condition) or asevena paccya (repetition condition) for more
    understanding and so it keeps accumulating until there are enough
    conditions for insight to arise. Not by self or wanting or freewill but by
    the right conditions.< 

    Metta,

    Sarah
    ======


#3 Virgo

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 11:23 PM

  • Sarah
     
    Dec 8, 2003
    Hi Howard,

    A friend of mine was flying to NY today, so I was able to warn her about
    the weather;-) No wonder you folks spend a lot of time indoors.

    --- upasaka@... wrote: 

    ....

    This sounded pretty good to me. I also liked a post you wrote in the last
    month, also using the billiard ball analogy but taking it a little
    further.
    http://www.escribe.c...oup/m22461.html

    I know it must be most frustrating at times, but we all appreciate your
    dialogues with Nina, Jon and others. Many lurkers will share your
    ambivalent feelings towards the Abhidhamma;-)

    Metta,

    Sarah
    =====

    _______________________________________________________________________
  • robmoult
     
    Message 7 of 19 , Dec 5, 2003
    Hi Sarah,
    It would appear that there is textual support (at least indirect 
    textual support) for my position.

    Sarah, I seem to recall that you enjoy wading through the Patthana. 
    Have you come across anything relevant there?

    Metta,
    Rob M :-)


#4 Virgo

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 11:24 PM

Sarah
 
Message 8 of 19 , Dec 5, 2003
Hi RobM,

--- robmoult <rob.moult@...> wrote: 
> > > > I see anusaya as the manifestation of natural decisive support
> > > > condition (pakatupanissaya). See my recent post (message 
> 26956) for
> > > > more information.
.....
To be honest, I dont really understand what this means. I looked at your
other clear message and am still at a loss. (By the way, I greatly
appreciated your last flurry of great posts on accumulations, nat.
decisive support, desirable objects and so on;-) ;-)).

I had wanted to bring the Vism comy quote to your attention before(but
you were travelling), because it related to comments wed made about nat
decisive support condition being necessary for kamma to bring its result.
I also gave the one on anusaya (latent tendencies) as an indication of the
many references to anusaya in texts such as the Vism.

Perhaps you mean that tendencies and accumulations now arise as a result
of nat decisive support and many other conditions.

One quote I can give from the Patthana that is a good reminder and may be
relevant to the poor fly thread is this:

Lust, hate, delusion, conceit, wrong views, wish is related to
confidence, precept, learning, generosity, wisdom by strong-dependence
condition. 

After having killed, (one) offers the offering, undertakes the precept,
fulfils the duty of observance, develops jhana, develops insight, develops
Path, develops superknowledge, develops attainment, to counteract it.
(423, Strong-dependence).

In other words, lust, hate etc can condition wholesome states such as wise
reflection, generosity or even insight into their characteristics
immediately following.
....
R:> It would appear that there is textual support (at least indirect 
> textual support) for my position.

> Sarah, I seem to recall that you enjoy wading through the Patthana. 
> Have you come across anything relevant there?
....
Ill need further clarification before any wading;-) Nina is also
translating a series on anusaya (latent tendencies) which Im sure will
include a lot of helpful information too.

Metta,

Sarah
p.s Ill have very limited wading/posting time at the weekend. Ken O and
Ken H, I had intended to write to you both, but maybe Monday. KenH, did
you see my post to you on MN117 at the start of the Cooran wend? (A reply
is never called for, just thought you might have missed it).
======


#5 Virgo

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 11:25 PM

 
  • Michael Beisert
     
    Dec 5, 2003
    Hello RobM,

    RobM:
    However, I would defend this position as making logic
    sense after studying the concepts of anusaya and pakatupanissaya.

    Michael:
    OK. Fair enough. Tks.

    Metta
    Michael
  • nina van gorkom
     
    Message 10 of 19 , Dec 5, 2003
    Dear Michael,
    See The ³Knowledge of beings¹ biases and underlying tendencies² mentioned in
    the ³Path of Discrimination² , ³Paìisambhidåmagga² of the Khuddaka Nikåya,
    in the Måtika (Table of Contents), among the seventythree kinds of
    knowledge. See also Ch 69, p. 124. These latent tendencies are further
    explained in its Commentary, the ³Saddhammappakåsiní² under the Explanation
    (Niddesa) of Knowledge of beings¹ biasses and underlying tendencies
    (åsayånusaya ñåna). Also in the Yamaka of the Abhidhamma (See Guide through
    the Abhidhamma Pitaka, p. 104).
    Nina. 
    op 05-12-2003 02:01 schreef Michael Beisert op mbeisert@...:

     


#6 Virgo

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 11:25 PM

robmoult
 
Message 11 of 19 , Dec 5, 2003
Hi Sarah,

--- In dhammastudygroup@yahoogroups.com, Sarah <sarahdhhk@y...> 
wrote:
> --- robmoult <rob.moult@j...> wrote: 
> > > > > I see anusaya as the manifestation of natural decisive 
support
> > > > > condition (pakatupanissaya). See my recent post (message 
> > 26956) for
> > > > > more information.
> .....
> To be honest, I don't really understand what this means. I looked 
at your
> other clear message and am still at a loss. 
 
=====

In Nyanatiloka's Dictionary, under "anusaya", a reference is made to 
Vis.M. XXII,60: "These things are called 'proclivities' since, in 
consequence of their pertinacity, they ever and again tend to become 
the conditions for the arising of ever new sensous greed, etc."

In other words, "anusaya" refers to mental states that tend to be 
somewhat self-sustaining. Now what is the underlying mechanism that 
would allow a mental state to become somewhat self-sustaining? It is 
pakatupanissaya. For example, the arising of sensous greed creates 
a "strong past citta/cetasika" which becomes the conditioning state 
for a new citta of sensous greed via pakatupanissaya. I see anusaya 
as the manifestation (outcome) and I see pakatupanissaya as the 
underlying mechanism supporting this outcome.

Does this clarify or confuse?

Metta,
Rob M :-)


#7 Virgo

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 11:26 PM

  • Michael Beisert
     
    Dec 5, 2003
    Hello Nina,

    Nina:
    See The �Knowledge of beings� biases and underlying tendencies� mentioned in
     
    Michael:
    Tks for your thorough response. In fact I was not so much questioning 
    anusaya but the idea that they lie 'dormant' somewhere. This concept has an 
    essenciialist flavor to it which I find hard to swalow. Now the idea of 
    anusaya as a condition, devoid of substance, makes more sense to me. My 
    questiion then was whether this view of anusaya as a condition is supported 
    in the commentaries.

    Metta
    Michael

    _________________________________________________________________
  • rjkjp1
     
    Message 13 of 19 , Dec 5, 2003
    --- In dhammastudygroup@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Beisert" 
    <mbeisert@h...> wrote:
    > Hello RobertK,

    > RobertK:
    > Latent tendencies (anusaya) are subtle defilements that lie
    > dormant 'waiting' for the opportunity to arise as pariyutthana 
    where
    > they are active forms of craving, dosa and wrong view.

    > Michael:
    > This description gives the (wrong) impression that the anusaya are 
    not 
    > subject to change and may even have some sort of substance. So, 
    which would 
    > be a proper description that would dispel this impression? Is 
    there 
    > something in the commentaries to this effect?
    ===================================
    Dear Michael,
    the whole of the Tipitaka and commentaries show and detail how 
    every phenomena is conditioned - except for nibbana. Anusaya are 
    certainly conditioned.
    The anusaya are:
    lust for sense pleasure (kamaraganusaya) 
    the latent tendency of aversion (patighanusaya) 
    the latent tendency of conceit (mananusaya) 
    the latent tendency of wrong view (ditthanusaya) 
    the latent tendency of doubt (vicikicchanusaya) 
    the latent tendency of lust for becoming (bhava-raganusaya) 
    the latent tendency of ignorance (avijjanusaya)

    If there were no anusaya then there could be no conditions for any 
    greed , wrong view or aversion. The arahants have eradicated all 
    anusaya. 
    Before knowing the Buddha`s teaching we used to think 'I' am angry, 
    or greedy or bored. But these phenomena are only pariyutthana - the 
    active stage of the defilements conditioned by anusaya- not us.
    There are many types of spritual pratice in the world but even the 
    best - except for vipassana- only supress the outward signs of 
    defilements, they do not even touch the anusaya:
    The Visuddhimagga (XXII, 60) 
    ... For it is owing to their inveteracy that they are called 
    inherent tendencies (anusaya) since they inhere (anusenti) as cause 
    for the arising of greed for sense desires, etc., again and again."


    What are the conditions for the anusaya? Here is a section from the 
    Mahanidana sutta commentary, (from bodhi The
    great discourse on causationp65)about Paticcasamupadda:
    Deep is the meaning of volitional formations as volitionally
    forming, accumulating, lustfulness, and lustlessness.
    Almost every moment there is the accumulating of new tendencies.
    Now perhaps we are kind, polite people but tendencies change - and 
    next life we may be born somewhere we we cannot hear dhamma and we 
    gradually develop strong tendencies to roughness and stupidity.

    How are the tendencies eradicated? Only by clear seeing (vipassana). 
    The first anusaya to be eradicated is wrong view, and this too is a 
    gradual process of wearing away. 

    Accumulating is happening right now - the accumulating of
    understanding (or not) that can be a condition as upanissiya paccaya
    (support condition) or asevena paccya (repetition condition) for
    more understanding and so it keeps accumulating until there are
    enough conditions for insight to arise. Not by self or wanting
    or freewill but by the right conditions.

    RobertK


#8 Virgo

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 11:27 PM

 
  • Michael Beisert
     
    Dec 6, 2003
    Hello RobertK,

    RobertK:
    the whole of the Tipitaka and commentaries show and detail how
    every phenomena is conditioned - except for nibbana. Anusaya are
    certainly conditioned

    Michael:
    Thank you for the very detailed explanation. I wasn't questioning that but 
    just the use of the words 'lying dormant' which may give the impression that 
    you are referring to something that is substantial and not 
    conditioned/impermanent phenomena. Just being picky maybe :)

    Metta
    Michael
     
  • rjkjp1
     
    Message 15 of 19 , Dec 6, 2003
    --- In dhammastudygroup@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Beisert" 
    <mbeisert@h...> wrote:
    that but 
    > just the use of the words 'lying dormant' which may give the 
    impression that 
    Dear Michael,
    Thanks, understood:)
    I want to add as many details as possible, as I would be very happy 
    if you come to see that the monks of old were true to the Dhamma - 
    as recorded in the commentaries of Buddhaghosa, Dhammapala and 
    Anuruddha:)
    robertk
     


#9 Virgo

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 11:29 PM

  • upasaka@aol.com
     
    Dec 6, 2003
    Hi, Michael (and Robert) -

    In a message dated 12/6/03 7:52:26 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
    mbeisert@... writes:

    ===========================
    I believe that "latent/dormant tendencies" rise and fall all the time, 
    with subsequent tendencies being conditioned by previous ones in much the 
    same way as the last mindstate in a "life" conditions the first mindstate of the 
    next, and in much the same way as the motion of one billiard ball conditions 
    the moving af another. It is not a matter of "the same tendency" continuing, 
    though subsequent tendencies are often little different in form/pattern from 
    prior ones. (But I agree that the terminology is off-putting, being suggestive of 
    substantiality and permananence.)

    With metta,
    Howard

    /Thus is how ye shall see all this fleeting world: A star at dawn, a bubble 
    in a stream, a flash of lightning in a summer cloud, a flickering lamp, a 
    phantom, and a dream./ (From the Diamond Sutra) 


     
  • Sarah
     
    Message 17 of 19 , Dec 8, 2003
    Hi RobM & All,

    --- robmoult <rob.moult@...> wrote: 
    > In Nyanatiloka's Dictionary, under "anusaya", a reference is made to 
    > Vis.M. XXII,60: "These things are called 'proclivities' since, in 
    > consequence of their pertinacity, they ever and again tend to become 
    > the conditions for the arising of ever new sensous greed, etc."

    > In other words, "anusaya" refers to mental states that tend to be 
    > somewhat self-sustaining. Now what is the underlying mechanism that 
    > would allow a mental state to become somewhat self-sustaining? It is 
    > pakatupanissaya. For example, the arising of sensous greed creates 
    > a "strong past citta/cetasika" which becomes the conditioning state 
    > for a new citta of sensous greed via pakatupanissaya. I see anusaya 
    > as the manifestation (outcome) and I see pakatupanissaya as the 
    > underlying mechanism supporting this outcome.

    > Does this clarify or confuse?
    ....
    This clarifies;-) I would probably refer to the sensuous greed as the
    outcome of the accumulated anusaya, acting as decisive support condition,
    but Im probably just quibbling;-).

    RobertK also quoted from the Vism on anusaya:

     
    ... For it is owing to their inveteracy that they are called 
    inherent tendencies (anusaya) since they inhere (anusenti) as cause for
    the arising of greed for sense desires, etc., again and again."
    *****

    RobM, I have a few gems for you, I hope;-) You started off by mentioning
    that the term pakatupanissaya only occurs in the Patthana and you were
    looking for expressions of the inter-connectedness of pakatupanissaya and
    anusaya elsewhere. As I mentioned before, I think we read about this
    frequently in the suttas, albeit in other terms and albeit with an
    understanding of Abhidhamma necessary to appreciate the suttas in
    question.

    Ken O introduced one good example in a discussion thread on practice and
    control/lack of control with Howard. He wrote:

    >Just the chinese sayings wu wei er wei (no action yet there is 
    action) literal translation. I would to share this interesting sutta
    paragraph with you

    http://www.accesstoi...a/sn12-038.html

    "But when one doesn't intend, arrange, or obsess [about anything], there
    is no support for the stationing of consciousness. There being no support,
    there is no landing of consciousness. When that consciousness doesn't land
    & grow, there is no production of renewed becoming in the future. When
    there is no production of renewed becoming in the future, there is no
    future birth, aging & death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, distress, or
    despair. Such is the cessation of this entire mass of suffering & stress."

    *****
    This is the third section, the end of the short sutta.

    I looked at B.Bodhis translation which starts off:

    ...Bhikkhus, what one intends, and what one plans, and whatever one has a
    tendency towards: this becomes a basis for the maintenance of
    consciousness.... Such is the origin of this whole mass of suffering

    BB adds extensive commentary notes (SN, p767f) which show the importance
    of appreciation of conditions and anusaya (latent tendencies). Howard &
    Christine may find this useful too:

    Spk [comy]: Here, the phrase one intends (ceteti) includes all
    wholesome and unwholesome volition of the three planes; one plans
    (pakappeti), the mental fabrications of craving and views
    (ta.nhaadi.t.thikappaa) in the eight cittas accompanied by greed [Spk-p.t
    [sub-comy]: the fabrications of views occur only in the four cittas
    associated with views]; and whatever one has a tendency towards
    (anuseti) ***implies the underlying tendencies(anusaya) under the
    headings of conascence and decisive support conditions for the twelve
    (unwholesome) volitions***.[see CMA 1:4-7]

    This becomes a basis (aaramma.nam eta.m hoti): These various states such
    as volition become a condition (paccaya). for the maintenance of
    consciousness (vi~n~naa.nassa .thitiyaa): for the purpose of maintaining
    the kammic consciousness........

    BB adds that AN 1 223-24 explains the process of renewed existence in
    similar terms. He adds that anuseti clearly refers to the anusaya or
    underlying tendencies, including the tendency to ignorance and craving.

    He also writes (and Im abbreviating a lot here) that in this sutta the
    terms ***aaramma.na and pati.t.thaa denote the decisive-support condition
    (upanissayapacccaya) for consciousness***, while in the two suttas in the
    Khandhasa.myutta they denote the conascence and support conditions
    (sahajaatapaccaya, nissayapaccaya).

    The sub-comy to the next section may be of interest to Ken H too.

    In the sutta we read:

    If, bhikkhus, one does not intend, and one does not plan, but one still
    has a tendency towards something, this becomes a basis for the maintenance
    of consciousness........Such is the origin of this whole mass of
    suffering.

    Spk: this refers to a moment when there is no occurrence of [wholesome
    and unwholesome] volition of the three planes, and no occurrence of the
    mental fabrications of craving and views. but one still has a tendency:
    by this the underlying tendencies are included because they have not been
    abandoned here in the resultants of the three planes........As long as the
    underlying tendencies exist, they become a condition for the kammic
    consciousness, for there is no way to prevent its arising.

    Spk-p.t: This second section is stated to show that wholesome and
    unwholesome kamma capable of producing rebirth is accumulated in the
    preliminary portion (of the path of practice), and that even without
    planning (through craving and views), the volitions of insight meditation
    in a meditator who has seen the dangers in existence are still conditioned
    by the underlying tendencies and are capable of generating rebirth. It is
    also stated to show that even when wholesome and unwholesome states are
    not occurring there is still an establishing of kammic consciousness with
    underlying defilements as condition; for so long as these have not been
    abandoned they lie latent in the existing resultants of the three planes,
    etc.

    In the third section, quoted by Ken O at the start, the function of the
    path of arahantship (arahattamaggassa kicca.m) is discussed whereby the
    anusayas have been eradicated. By path, clearly the magga citta is being
    referred to. Spk-p.t: the nine supramundane states can be said because
    the underlying tendencies are extirpated by the series of paths, and the
    fruits follow immediately upon the paths, and Nibbana is the object of
    both.

    There is a lot more that could be discussed here, but Ill wait for any
    further comments. Many thanks to you all for prompting these quotes and
    further reflections. 

    As RobertK wrote:

    >Accumulating is happening right now - the accumulating of
    understanding (or not) that can be a condition as upanissiya paccaya
    (support condition) or asevena paccya (repetition condition) for more
    understanding and so it keeps accumulating until there are enough
    conditions for insight to arise. Not by self or wanting or freewill but by
    the right conditions.< 

    Metta,

    Sarah
    ======


#10 Virgo

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 11:29 PM

  • Sarah
     
    Dec 8, 2003
    Hi Howard,

    A friend of mine was flying to NY today, so I was able to warn her about
    the weather;-) No wonder you folks spend a lot of time indoors.

    --- upasaka@... wrote: 

    ....

    This sounded pretty good to me. I also liked a post you wrote in the last
    month, also using the billiard ball analogy but taking it a little
    further.
    http://www.escribe.c...oup/m22461.html

    I know it must be most frustrating at times, but we all appreciate your
    dialogues with Nina, Jon and others. Many lurkers will share your
    ambivalent feelings towards the Abhidhamma;-)

    Metta,

    Sarah
    =====
     
     
  • robmoult
     
    Message 7 of 19 , Dec 8, 2003
    Hi Sarah,

    --- In dhammastudygroup@yahoogroups.com, Sarah <sarahdhhk@y...> 
    wrote:
    > RobM, I have a few gems for you, I hope;-) You started off by 
    mentioning
     
    you were
    > looking for expressions of the inter-connectedness of 
    pakatupanissaya and
    > anusaya elsewhere. As I mentioned before, I think we read about 
    this
    > frequently in the suttas, albeit in other terms and albeit with an
    > understanding of Abhidhamma necessary to appreciate the suttas in
    > question.

    > Ken O introduced one good example in a discussion thread 
    on `practice' and
    > control/lack of control with Howard. He wrote:

    > >Just the chinese sayings wu wei er wei (no action yet there is 
    > action) literal translation. I would to share this interesting 
    sutta
    > paragraph with you

    http://www.accesstoi...a/sn12-038.html

     
    =====

    Thanks for pointing out this Sutta. I liked it (and BB's notes as 
    well).

    I see two complementary dimensions to the Buddha's teachings; 
    ethical and soterilolocial. I am coming the conclusion that 
    pakatupanissaya is core to the ethical dimension (though I would 
    feel more comfortable if there were at least one Sutta dedicated to 
    this specific topic). I suspect that pakatupanissaya is also key to 
    paticcasamuppada, though I haven't explored this yet. When I do get 
    around to this exploration, this Sutta will come in handy.

    Metta,
    Rob M :-)






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