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#1 Robert

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 05:21 AM

Hello;
I first would like to say hello to all members here at AVF I'm a new recruit, and hope to share
innumerable productive communications with you all.
I have a question please; I'm studying Buddhaghosa’s 'Visuddhimagga', and am thinking maybe for the sake of better comprehension a copy of the commentary Paramatthamanjusa would be a
recommended purchase as fall-back, or is the 'Visuddhimagga', comprehensible in itself that
we do not need any further referencing material.
I’d very much appreciate your thoughts, thank you.
Also thank you RobertK for your kind help recently in sorting out my registration problem.

Robert


#2 RobertK

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 07:52 AM

Dear Robert
Nina van gorkom translated much of the PM

see this for links to individual posts
http://groups.yahoo....p/message/55332

If you have time you could go to the links and copy and paste the links and content on this thread
thanks for joining!
robert

#3 Robert

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 05:42 AM

Hi there,
<My question regarding the 'Paramatthamanjusa' the commentary to the 'Visuddhimagga'.>

RobertK's reply:

Nina van gorkom translated much of the PM

see this for links to individual posts
http://groups.yahoo....p/message/55332

If you have time you could go to the links and copy and paste the links and content on this thread
thanks for joining!
robert
..............................................................................................................
My Question:
?Do I paste the following, see below, from the above http address, i.e. all sets of numbers in both groups
into this topic?
"I think I'm a bit too 'old-in-the-tooth' to tackle something like this!" sorry.
Just need a recommendation re: the 'Paramatthamanjusa', the commentary to the 'Visuddhimagga', thats all!

Robert
.......................................................................................................................
Hi all,
Here is an index of paragraph numbers and message numbers of the text of
chapter XIV of the Visuddhimagga and of Nina's summary and/or
translation of Dhammapaala's Commentary on that text.

Text: paragraph number and message number
1 (23597), 2 (23759), 3 (23932), 4 (24080), 5 (24082), 6 (24083),........ etc.

Nina's trans. and/or exposition of tika:
1 (23628), 2 (23851), 3 (24135), 4 (24406), 5 (24484), 7 (24600),..........etc.

#4 RobertK

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 01:17 AM

Dear robert
I meant you could go to each post on dsg . There are over 25, and copy and paste them . It would be about 40 pages of text in total i guess

#5 RobertK

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 01:19 AM

This is the first in the series
"The Path of Purification" (Visuddhimagga) XIV

1. Now concentration was described under the heading of "Consciousness"
in the stanza.

'When a wise man, established well in Virtue, develops Consciousness and
understanding'.

And that has been developed in all its aspects by the bhikkhu who is
thus possessed of the more advanced development of concentration that
has acquired with direct-knowledge the benefits. But "Understanding"
comes next. And that has yet to be developed. Now that is not easy,
firstly even to know about, let alone to develop, when it is taught very
briefly. In order, therefore, to deal with the detailed method of its
development there is the following set of questions:

(i) What is understanding?

(ii) In what sense is it understanding?

(iii) What are its characteristic, function, manifestation, and
proximate cause?

(iv) How many kinds of understanding are there?

(v) How is it developed?

(vi) What are the benefits of developing understanding?





#6 Robert

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 12:20 AM

Thank you RobertK for the link, please excuse, my porch light was burned out!
(Didn't quite catch the drift of your directions, darn have I just given away my age?)

The DSG site with all those posts is a veritable diamond cache.

Am I guessing that the 'Paramatthamanjusa' is no longer in print or hard to aquire? Or
is it that a translation of it has not been published?

One thing that is puzzling me as I read on in, "The Path of Purification", who
is speaking? Is it the Buddha or Buddhaghosa, as is said on:

pg 6 at 4. My task is now to set out the true sense, ........

So if it is Buddhaghosa that the book and its ideas originated with, are the ideas
and comments in it his interpretations of actually what Buddha said, or are they
his, i.e. Buddhaghosa's (and his alone).

Thank you,

Robert

#7 Robert

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 01:15 AM

QUOTE(Robert @ Apr 7 2012, 06:20 PM) View Post

Thank you RobertK for the link, please excuse, my porch light was burned out!
(Didn't quite catch the drift of your directions, darn have I just given away my age?)

The DSG site with all those posts is a veritable diamond cache.

Am I guessing that the 'Paramatthamanjusa' is no longer in print or hard to aquire? Or
is it that a translation of it has not been published?

One thing that is puzzling me as I read on in, "The Path of Purification", who
is speaking? Is it the Buddha or Buddhaghosa, as is said on:

pg 6 at 4. My task is now to set out the true sense, ........

So if it is Buddhaghosa that the book and its ideas originated with, are the ideas
and comments in it his interpretations of actually what Buddha said, or are they
his, i.e. Buddhaghosa's (and his alone).

Thank you,

Robert


Now, after going back over the text again, I think there are two,'voices'.
The Buddha and Buddhaghosa are speaking, are they not?

I'm being particular at this point as I start into the text, because
it is quite a difficult text, and I'm reading it for the first time.
And mistakes of comprehension will arise if one does not grasp
right from the first sentence what is being said and by whom.

#8 RobertK

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 01:52 AM

The paramattha manjusa is avaiable but only in pali. The only translation done to date is the one( a very good one) on dsg by nina van gorkom. But unfortunately it is spread out over dozens of posts.
I am too lazy to copy and paste them all here... But one day!
In the case you mention it is Buddhaghosa posing questions. Which he then answers..

#9 RobertK

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 01:55 AM

Dear robert
So the link i gave was to a list of posts by nina on dsg: 1 (23597), 2 (23759), 3 (23932), 4 (24080), 5 (24082), 6 (24083),........ etc.

Nina's trans. and/or exposition of tika:
1 (23628), 2 (23851), 3 (24135), 4 (24406), 5 (24484), 7 (24600),..........etc.

I chose one of these numbers ( in this case 23628) and then put the number in the yahoo groups search in dsg and copy and paste it below:
http://groups.yahoo....g...eaded=1&l=1
Re: [dsg] Vism. XIV, 1

Dear Jim,
Thank you very much for your interesting remarks. Just a thing I wonder
about, see below.
op 24-07-2003 17:19 schreef Jim Anderson op jimanderson_on@...:

>
> Some interesting details in the Maha Tika: there is a complete listing
> of the "aspects" in "in all its aspects" (sabbaakaarena). For "comes
> next": in the order of the teaching and in the order of the practice
> (desanaakkamena pa.tipattikkamena ca). A clear indication that, in
> practice, the development of concentration precedes that of
> understanding.
>
N: It depends in whose pratice. I read: <And that has been developed in all
its aspects by the bikkhu who is thus possessed of the more advanced
development of concentration that has acquired with direct knowledge the
benefits. But understanding comes next.>
Here is the case of the bhikkhu who has developed jhana and also the
abhinnas, including superpowers such as diving into the earth. This bhikkhu
will develop panna to the degree of arahatship and even have the four
analytical powers. This is no longer the case at the present time. I do not
see this as a rule for everybody. I cannot see a set order of first sila,
then samadhi, then panna. As we discussed before, the Vis. deals with all
degrees of sila, even the eradication of all defilements can also be seen
under sila. Evenso there are many degrees of concentration. In the Vis I
read that only very, very few can attain jhana.
But I will rather wait and see what the Tika further explains.
Nina.