Jump to content


Photo

Patience


  • Please log in to reply
1 reply to this topic

#1 RobertK

RobertK

    Administrator

  • Root Admin
  • 1,177 posts

Posted 13 June 2007 - 11:48 AM

http://groups.yahoo....p/message/73315
from scott

M: "...'conceptual right view':

"There are these five rewards in listening to the Dhamma. Which five?

"One hears what one has not heard before. One clarifies what one has
heard before. One gets rid of doubt. One's views are made straight.
One's mind grows serene.

"These are the five rewards in listening to the Dhamma."

Scott: Sorry for the delay, Mike. One motherboard later...

After reading 'Perfections' I read the Cariyaapi.taka A.t.thakathaa, A
Treatise on the Paaramiis (this is in Bh. Bodhi's Brahmajaala Sutta
and its Commentaries, p. 271), and came across the following,
regarding the perfection of patience:

"...And: 'When there is patience, the mind becomes concentrated, all
formations appear to reflection as impermanent and suffering; all
dhammas as not-self, nibbaana as unconditioned, deathless, peaceful,
and sublime, and the Buddha-qualities as endowed with inconceivable
and immearsurable potency. Then established in acquiescence in
conformity, the groundlessness of all 'I-making' and 'mine-making'
becomes evident to reflection thus: 'Mere dhammas alone exist, devoid
of self or of anything pertaining to a self. They arise and pass away
in accordance with their conditions. They do not come from anywhere,
they do not go anywhere, they are not established anywhere. There is
no agency in anything whatsoever.'..."

In a footnote: "Annulomiya.m khantiya.m .thito. 'Acquiescence in
conformity' indicates the stage in the development of insight where
the meditator can accept the basic truths of his contemplation without
yet having fully apprehended them by mature wisdom. Khanti here
signifies the acceptance of difficult to understand doctrines rather
than patience in the ordinary sense..."

And from p. 247:

"...Patience is mentioned after energy:...c)in order to state the
causal basis for serenity immediately after the basis for exertion,
for restlessness due to excessive activity is abandoned through
reflective acquiescence in the Dhamma (dhammanijjhaanakkhanti)..."

The footnote: "Dhammanijjhaanakkhanti. The word khanti, ordinarily
used to mean patience in the sense of forbearance of the wrongs of
others and the endurance of hardships, is sometimes also used to
signify the intellectual acceptance of doctrines which are not yet
completely clear to understanding. Patience thus becomes a virtue not
only of the will but of the intellect as well. It is a 'suspension of
disbelief' born of trust, a willingness to acquiesce in propositions
baffling or even scandalous to the rational understanding in the
confidence that the growth of wisdom will transform this acquiescence
into clear and certain knowledge. The compound dhammanijjhaanakhanti
seems to indicate an intermediate stage in the process of
transformation, where the understanding can accept by way of
reflection the article initially assented to in faith, without fully
grasping it by immediate insight."

Scott: Relevant? I'd say so, and very cool as well. By the way, I'd
say 'process of transformation' ought to be read as 'development of
pa~n~na' since the notion of transformation misleads and blurs the
truth or arising and falling away.

Sincerely,

Scott.




#2 mike

mike

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 38 posts

Posted 13 June 2007 - 06:27 PM

Hi Scott (and Robert),

--- In dhammastudygroup@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Duncan" <scduncan@...>
wrote:

> The footnote: "Dhammanijjhaanakkhanti. The word khanti, ordinarily
> used to mean patience in the sense of forbearance of the wrongs of
> others and the endurance of hardships, is sometimes also used to
> signify the intellectual acceptance of doctrines which are not yet
> completely clear to understanding. Patience thus becomes a virtue not
> only of the will but of the intellect as well. It is a 'suspension of
> disbelief' born of trust, a acquiescence
> into clear and certain knowledge. The compound
> dhammanijjhaanakhanti seems to indicate an intermediate stage in the
> process of transformation, where the understanding can accept by way of
> reflection the article initially assented to in faith, without fully
> grasping it by immediate insight."
>
> Scott: Relevant? I'd say so, and very cool as well.

Perfectly relevant thanks, Scott. As often happens I find I'm
strongly inclined to agree with BB's note but with the reservation
that it's his interpretation rather than his translation of the text.
In other words it's just the sort of verification I've been looking
for but still not (directly) from a discourse or even a commentary or
subcommentary.

Still, "'suspension of disbelief' born of trust" and especially
"willingness to
acquiesce in propositions baffling or even scandalous to the rational
understanding in the confidence that the growth of wisdom will
transform this..." is nicely put as a way to proceed with parts of the
texts I'm not presently able to grasp clearly or to reconcile with my
own views.

> By the way, I'd
> say 'process of transformation' ought to be read as 'development of
> pa~n~na' since the notion of transformation misleads and blurs the
> truth or arising and falling away.

I'm inclined to agree that yours is a preferable expression, though
the best would be one found in similar contexts in both the
abhidhamma- and sutta-pitakas.

Anyway nice work finding this and hope I haven't been too picky.

mike