On Virtue (siila) .. Part II.

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Topic
#414

This world, Kaccaana, is for the most part shackled by engagement,
clinging, and adherence. But this one [with right view (i.e ‘this noble
disciple’)] does not become engaged and cling through that engagement and
clinging, mental standpoint, adherence, underlying tendency
(‘adhi.t.haanaabhinivesaanusayaa’); he does not take a stand about ‘my
self.'” [S: adhi.t.thaanaabhinivesaanusayaa = adhi.t.thaana + abhinivesa +
anusayaa]

Note 32, BB:”….Spk says that craving and views are also called “mental
standpoints” (adhi.t.thaana) because they are the foundation for the
(unwholesome) mind, and “adherences and underlying tendencies”
(abhinivesaanusaya) because they adhere to the mind and lie latent within
it. Spk connects the verb adhi.t.thaati to the following “attaa me,” and I
conform to this interpretation in the translation.”
========
S: Also, see this quote in a message of Connie’s:
>I would fix [on it] (abhinivesayya.m), thinking, “It is mine.”< The understanding of dhammas as anatta is the only way that the tendencies of wrong view can be eradicated. It was the last line in this message: http://groups.yahoo....p/message/81724 >466. Like a worm (kimi va)* means: like (viya) a worm. This foul body
(puuti-kaaya.m) means: this foul body (puuti-ka.levara.m). Smelling of sweat(savana-gandha.m)* means: giving out a smell like raw meat
(vissa.t.tha-vissa-gandha.m). Frightful (bhayaanaka.m) means: causing fear
(bhayaavaha.m) in those not free of passion. I would be associated with
(abhisa.mviseyya.m) this foul body means: this leather bag filled with corpses(ku.napa-bharita.m). Always (asakai.m) flowing (paggha-rita.m), full ofimpurities (asuci-pu.n.na.m) means: being full of various sorts of impurity(asucino pu.n.na.m), flowing over (abhipagggharanta.m), not once (asaki.m), butall the time (sabba-kaala.m); ***I would fix [on it] (abhinivesayya.m), thinking,”It is mine.”***

Metta,

Sarah
p.s just seen Nina has also responded, but I’ll post this anyway.
==============

han tun

Message 2 of 9 , 23 Oct, 2008
Dear Sarah (Tep, Nina),

Thank you very much for your kind comments.
I will study them carefully.

Yours sincerely,
Han

Dear Han and Nina, –

Thank you both : Han for the tough questions, and Nina for nice
answers.

> (13) su~n~nata-anupassanaa (contemplation of voidness): abhinivesa
> (misinterpretation)
>
> Han: abhinivesa is translated in your book as misinterpretation.
> According to PTS dictionary, abhinivesa means wishing for, tendency
> towards, inclination, adherence; as adj. liking, loving, being
> given or inclined to. What do you think is the best word for
> abhinivesa? After getting the best word for abhinivesa, can you
> explain how the contemplation of voidness would abandon abhinivesa?
> ———–
> N: Su~n~natta: empty of the self, as is explained in the Majjhima
> Nikaya. Abhinivesa: wrong adherence (to an idea of self),
> misinterpratetion of reality.
——–
T: The several meanings for ‘abhinivesa’ given by PTS dictionary
point to one thing : tanha. We all have inclination towards and
adherence to pleasurable objects due to tanha. The term ‘su~n~nata’
means “void, empty, devoid of lusts, evil dispositions, and karma,
but especially of soul, ego”, according to PTS. Therefore, the
contemplation of su~n~nata would lead to the mind that is empty of
lust, evil dispositions AND misinterpretation due to believing in a
soul (or ego) in the body and mind.
===============

> (16) aadiinava-anupassanaa (contemplation of danger): aalaya-
> abhinivesa (misinterpretation due to reliance)
>
> Han: aalaya is translated in your book as reliance. According to
> PTS dictionary aalaya means attachment, desire, clinging, lust.
> What do you think is the best word for aalaya?
——-
N: I agree, aalaya is clinging. Because of clinging we do not see the
danger of akusala.

T: Yes, PTS says ‘aalaya’ is ‘attachment, desire, clinging, lust’.
But Ven. Nanamoli also added “due to formations” after the word
reliance, i.e. : “Through contemplation of danger in the case of
misinterpretation due to reliance[on formations].” So I think the
best meaning for aalaya is clinging on formations.

T: I have one more comment.

In (14) it does not sound right :
(14) adhipa~n~naa-dhamma-vipassanaa (insight into ideas which is the
higher understanding): saaraadaana-abhinivesa (misinterpretation due
to greed)

Here ‘saara’ does not mean greed. It means essence or hardest part of
anything. The misinterpretation of a ‘core’ (that is essential) is
restrained and non-transgressed through the higher understanding.

Regards,

Tep
===
Dear Han,
may I butt in?
Op 23-okt-2008, om 8:57 heeft han tun het volgende geschreven:

——-
N: I agree, aalaya is clinging. Because of clinging we do not see the
danger of akusala.
Nina.

• han tun

Message 5 of 9 , 23 Oct, 2008
Dear Nina (Tep),

Han: abhinivesa is translated in your book as misinterpretation. According to PTS dictionary, abhinivesa means wishing for, tendency towards, inclination, adherence; as adj. liking, loving, being given or inclined to. What do you think is the best word for abhinivesa? After getting the best word for abhinivesa, can you explain how the contemplation of voidness would abandon abhinivesa?

——————
> > Han: (16) aadiinava-anupassan aa (contemplation of danger): aalaya-abhinivesa (misinterpretation due to reliance)
Han: aalaya is translated in your book as reliance. According to PTS dictionary aalaya means attachment, desire, clinging, lust.
What do you think is the best word for aalaya?
> Nina: I agree, aalaya is clinging. Because of clinging we do not see the danger of akusala.
================

Han: Thank you very much , Nina, for butting in.
I agree with your comments.
I will also welcome comments from Tep.

Respectfully,
Han
Dear Han (& Tep),
— On Thu, 23/10/08, han tun wrote:
———— ——— ———

>Han: Out of the above, I do not quite understand some of them. For example,

(>13) su~n~nata-anupassan aa (contemplation of voidness): abhinivesa (misinterpretation)

>Han: abhinivesa is translated in your book as misinterpretation. According to PTS dictionary, abhinivesa means wishing for, tendency towards, inclination, adherence; as adj. liking, loving, being given or inclined to. What do you think is the best word for abhinivesa? After getting the best word for abhinivesa, can you explain how the contemplation of voidness would abandon abhinivesa?

….
S: The following which I quoted before might be helpful:

http://groups.yahoo&#8230;.p/message/73841
>SN12:15 Kaccaanagotta Sutta (Bodhi transl):

“This world, Kaccaana, is for the most part shackled by engagement,
clinging, and adherence. But this one [with right view (i.e ‘this noble
disciple’)] does not become engaged and cling through that engagement and
clinging, mental standpoint, adherence, underlying tendency
(‘adhi.t.haanaabhinivesaanusayaa’); he does not take a stand about ‘my
self.'” [S: adhi.t.thaanaabhinivesaanusayaa = adhi.t.thaana + abhinivesa +
anusayaa]

Note 32, BB:”….Spk says that craving and views are also called “mental
standpoints” (adhi.t.thaana) because they are the foundation for the
(unwholesome) mind, and “adherences and underlying tendencies”
(abhinivesaanusaya) because they adhere to the mind and lie latent within
it. Spk connects the verb adhi.t.thaati to the following “attaa me,” and I
conform to this interpretation in the translation.”
========
S: Also, see this quote in a message of Connie’s:
>I would fix [on it] (abhinivesayya.m), thinking, “It is mine.”< The understanding of dhammas as anatta is the only way that the tendencies of wrong view can be eradicated. It was the last line in this message: http://groups.yahoo....p/message/81724 >466. Like a worm (kimi va)* means: like (viya) a worm. This foul body
(puuti-kaaya.m) means: this foul body (puuti-ka.levara.m). Smelling of sweat(savana-gandha.m)* means: giving out a smell like raw meat
(vissa.t.tha-vissa-gandha.m). Frightful (bhayaanaka.m) means: causing fear
(bhayaavaha.m) in those not free of passion. I would be associated with
(abhisa.mviseyya.m) this foul body means: this leather bag filled with corpses(ku.napa-bharita.m). Always (asakai.m) flowing (paggha-rita.m), full ofimpurities (asuci-pu.n.na.m) means: being full of various sorts of impurity(asucino pu.n.na.m), flowing over (abhipagggharanta.m), not once (asaki.m), butall the time (sabba-kaala.m); ***I would fix [on it] (abhinivesayya.m), thinking,”It is mine.”***

Metta,

Sarah
p.s just seen Nina has also responded, but I’ll post this anyway.
==============
• han tun

Message 7 of 9 , 23 Oct, 2008
Dear Sarah (Tep, Nina),

Thank you very much for your kind comments.
I will study them carefully.

Yours sincerely,
Han
Dear Han and Nina, –

Thank you both : Han for the tough questions, and Nina for nice
answers.
> (13) su~n~nata-anupassanaa (contemplation of voidness): abhinivesa
> (misinterpretation)
>
> Han: abhinivesa is translated in your book as misinterpretation.
> According to PTS dictionary, abhinivesa means wishing for, tendency
> towards, inclination, adherence; as adj. liking, loving, being
> given or inclined to. What do you think is the best word for
> abhinivesa? After getting the best word for abhinivesa, can you
> explain how the contemplation of voidness would abandon abhinivesa?
> ———–
> N: Su~n~natta: empty of the self, as is explained in the Majjhima
> Nikaya. Abhinivesa: wrong adherence (to an idea of self),
> misinterpratetion of reality.
——–
T: The several meanings for ‘abhinivesa’ given by PTS dictionary
point to one thing : tanha. We all have inclination towards and
adherence to pleasurable objects due to tanha. The term ‘su~n~nata’
means “void, empty, devoid of lusts, evil dispositions, and karma,
but especially of soul, ego”, according to PTS. Therefore, the
contemplation of su~n~nata would lead to the mind that is empty of
lust, evil dispositions AND misinterpretation due to believing in a
soul (or ego) in the body and mind.
===============
> (16) aadiinava-anupassanaa (contemplation of danger): aalaya-
> abhinivesa (misinterpretation due to reliance)
>
> Han: aalaya is translated in your book as reliance. According to
> PTS dictionary aalaya means attachment, desire, clinging, lust.
> What do you think is the best word for aalaya?
——-
N: I agree, aalaya is clinging. Because of clinging we do not see the
danger of akusala.

T: Yes, PTS says ‘aalaya’ is ‘attachment, desire, clinging, lust’.
But Ven. Nanamoli also added “due to formations” after the word
reliance, i.e. : “Through contemplation of danger in the case of
misinterpretation due to reliance[on formations].” So I think the
best meaning for aalaya is clinging on formations.

T: I have one more comment.

In (14) it does not sound right :
(14) adhipa~n~naa-dhamma-vipassanaa (insight into ideas which is the
higher understanding): saaraadaana-abhinivesa (misinterpretation due
to greed)

Here ‘saara’ does not mean greed. It means essence or hardest part of
anything. The misinterpretation of a ‘core’ (that is essential) is
restrained and non-transgressed through the higher understanding.

Regards,

Tep
===

• han tun

Message 4 of 9 , 23 Oct, 2008
Dear Tep (Nina, Sarah),

Thank you very much for your kind comments.
Now, I have enough home-work to do.
I will have to take time to digest all these valuable comments.

Thank you all,
Respectfully,
Han

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