path and fruition

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#549

Dear…

Thanks for all your comments which have helped me reflect more and check
other texts in some detail.

I just have a little more to add on the Dakkinavibhanga Sutta and the
question about magga (path) and phala (fruition) consciousness following
immediately as questioned in this connection.

First, I’d like to stress that it is not only in the commentaries and
Abhidhamma that it’s spelled out that the immediate result of path
consciousness follows as in Vism. XX11,15″

“Immediately next to that knowledge (stream-entry path consciousness),
however, there arise either two or three fruition consciousnesses, which
are its result.”

In the Patisambhidamagga, Khuddaka Nikkaya it’s also made clear. There is
a section (1, XXX11) which starts with a discussion of the question on
‘How is it that understanding of cutting off of cankers due to pureness of
non-distraction is knowledge of concentration with immediate
[result=phala].

We’ve had many discussions about the list of 14 recipients in the
Dakkinavibhanga Sutta

The same phrase ‘sotaapattiphalasacchakiriyaaya pa.tipanno (practising for
the realization of the fruition of stream-attainer) can be found in many
other contexts. The texts usually differentiate between the person
‘established in the fruition’ or ‘standing in the fruit’ (phala .thitaa)
and the one ‘practising for the realization of the fruit’, as in AN8s, 59.
Here as Ken H suggests, the one ‘practising for the realization of the
fruit’ refers to the stage of the magga citta of the sotapanna etc, and
the one ‘standing in the fruit’ to the ‘establishment’ of the following
phala cittas, i.e. ‘The four standing in the fruit'(cattaaro ca phala
.thitaa). So, here, I believe, ‘the stream-enterer and one practising for
the realization of the fruit of stream-entry’ etc are in fact the 8 kinds
of ariyans, ‘the upright Sangha’as B.Bodhi’s note confirms.

Sometimes, the language makes it difficult to appreciate this as in the
text Steve gave before (#29223) which Kel recently gave us a link to:

Steve: >In the Puggala-Pannatti there is this >

47. What sort of person is a “stream-attainer”, and what sort of
person is one striving for realization of the fruition stage?

A person who is working for putting away the three fetters is one
working for the realization of the fruition stage of a “stream-
attainer”; The person whose three fetters have been put away is said
to be a “stream-attainer.”

< ..>
Pali>>

Katamo ca puggalo sotaapanno sotaapattiphalasacchikiriyaaya
pa.tipanno?
Ti.n.na.m sa.myojanaana.m pahaanaaya pa.tipanno puggalo
sotaapattiphalasacchikiriyaaya pa.tipanno. Yassa puggalassa tii.ni
sa.myojanaani pahiinaani- aya.m vuccati puggalo “sotaapanno”.

< ...>
….
S: I think we can read these references to the ‘practising for the
realization of the fruition of stream-attainer’ according to the summary
of the note to the commentaries which Nanamoli/Bodhi give to the
Dakkinavibhanga Sutta:

“MA and MT explain that this term (S: i.e. sotaapattiphalasacchikiriyaaya
pa.tipanno) can be loosely extended to include even a lay follower who has
gone for refuge to the Triple Gem, as well as lay people and monks intent
on fulfilling the moral training and the practice of concentration and
insight. In the strict technical sense it refers only to those possessing
the supramundane path of stream-entry.”

S: (It would be useful to see more detail from these commentary notes in
due course!) Also, see Nina’s reply to Steve in #29236
******
S: In another passage in the Puggala Pannatti (transl. as ‘Designation of
Human Types’ , PTS) in the same section as the quote Steve gave (in Div.
of Human Types by One), it also differentiates between the ‘person
practising the fruition stage of a stream-attainer’ and the same one
‘established in the fruition’:

“What sort of person is ‘one conforming to the Norm’ (dhamaanusaari)?
The faculty of insight of a person proceeding to realise the fruition
stage of ‘stream-attaining’ develops to a large extent; he cultivates the
Noble Path (ariya magga) carrying with it insight, preceded by insight –
this sort of person is said to be one conforming to the Norm. Such a
person practising the fruition stage of a stream-attainer is one
conforming to the Norm, while the same person established in the fruition
is one who has won vision. (sotaapattiphalasacchikiriyaaya pa.tipanno
puggala dhammaanusaari phala .thiti di.t.thipputto)”
….
S: The same is said for the saddhaanusari, the faith follower.
Usually, I believe the dhamaanusaari and sadhaanusaari are included in the
sevenfold grouping of ariyan disciples. I take the first person
‘practising the fruition stage’ here to refer to the supramundane path
and perhaps also to the insight developed close to the supramundane path
when the bojjangas (enlightenment factors) are being fulfilled and
reference can be made to the ‘Noble Path’.

I take the second person in this quote, the one ‘established in the
fruition’ to refer to the attainment of supramundane fruition of the
sotapanna. Clearly, once the ‘vision’ has been won, the sotapanna is
‘established’. In terms of the offerings discussed in the Dakkinavibhanga
Sutta, the greater merit is to the sotapanna, already ‘established in the
fruit’ as compared to the one who is close to enlightenment or ‘in a
strict technical sense’, the one who has fully realized the ariyan path
(attained the magga cittas), but not yet the fruition (phala cittas)! The
same applies to the other ariyan stages.

Thanks again to all for helping me to consider further. Of course, I
welcome any further reflections.

Metta,

Sarah
=======

Hi Sarah, This is a late reply to message #60469 (Thu Jun 15, 2006) in which you discussed the phrase sotaapattiphalasacchakiriyaaya pa.tipanno ( practising
,

This is a late reply to message #60469 (Thu Jun 15, 2006) in which you
discussed the phrase sotaapattiphalasacchakiriyaaya pa.tipanno
(‘practising for the realization of the fruition of stream-attainer’)
as it occurs in the Dakkhi.naavibhanga Sutta. After quoting from
Bhikkhu Bodhi’s notes on this phrase, you wrote:

> S: It would be useful to see more detail from these commentary notes
> in due course!

I don’t recall anyone posting any more detail, but as this very issue
has just come up on E-sangha I thought I would post here my reply to a
question from the Czech monk Ven. Gavesako (Jakub Bartovsky):

>> Ven.G:
>> “Can I ask, how does the commentary explain the 8 types of
>> individuals mentioned in the Suttas, namely, “one practising for
>> realizing the fruit of stream-entry”, “stream-enterer” and so on?
>> (These are also described as recipients of offerings, which means
>> they have to be at that particular stage for more than a single
>> moment.)”

> Dh:
>
> I think phalasacchikiriyaaya pa.tipanna would be better translated as
> “one who has entered upon the way to the realisation of the fruit…”
> (~Naa.namoli’s rendering), rather than “one practising for…”
>
> In answer to your question, a good place to start is the commentary to
> the Dakkhi.naavibhanga Sutta (MN. 142); this is one of the suttas in
> which these persons are described as potential recipients of
> offerings.
>
> It should be noted that the 8 types in this Sutta do not perfectly
> overlap with the “4 pairs of persons, 8 kinds of individuals” that
> constitute the Noble Sangha, for the 4 pairs here are not attainer of
> the path vs. attainer of the fruit, but rather, one who has entered
> upon the way to realisation of the fruit vs. one has realised the
> fruit. In the commentarial exposition, disciples in whom sotaapatti
> magga has arisen are just one sub-class of persons who have entered
> upon the way to realisation of sotaapatti phala.
>
> The phrase “one who has entered upon the way to realisation of the
> fruit of stream-entry” (sotaapattiphalasacchikiriyaaya pa.tipanna) is
> defined by the commentary according to the Sutta Method, and the
> definition given is a rather broad and inclusive one; in this context
> any worldling who has become an upaasaka by going to the three refuges
> is reckoned as “one who has entered upon the way to realisation of the
> fruit…” The commentator remarks that being an upaasaka with the
> three refuges is the bare minimum (he.t.thimako.ti) for a person to be
> counted as such; he then proceeds to list seven other types who are
> progressively more worthy to be recipients of offerings:
>
> * one established in the five precepts;
> * one established in the ten precepts;
> * one who goes forth as a saama.nera (so long as the offering is given
> to him on the day he goes forth);
> * a bhikkhu who is dutiful (vattasampanna);
> * a vipassaka (i.e. one who has developed insight up to but not
> including the knowledge of rise and fall);
> * an aaraddhavipassaka (one who has developed strong insight, i.e.
> knowledge of rise and fall onwards);
> * a maggasamangii (one possessed of the factors of the path).
>
> The last is the highest type and is the only one who has actually
> attained sotaapatti magga.
>
> The commentator then asks if it is possible to give a gift to a
> maggasamangii, considering that such a ‘person’ only exists for a
> single mind-moment. He answers that it is and gives the example of an
> aaraddhavipassaka bhikkhu who goes to a layman’s house for almsfood,
> the people there take his almsbowl from him and then emergence of the
> path ( magga-vu.t.thaana) occurs in him at the same moment that they
> are putting food in his bowl. There are a few other examples given,
> but they are essentially the same, differing only in the manner in
> which the food is given.

Later, to make the difference between the two lists of eight clearer to
another poster, I summarized them:
> List A: the Noble Sangha:
>
> 1. Attainer of the path of stream-entry. (ariyan).
> 2. Attainer of the fruit of stream-entry. (ariyan).
>
> 3. Attainer of the path of once-returning. (ariyan).
> 4. Attainer of the fruit of once-returning. (ariyan).
>
> 5. Attainer of the path of non-returning. (ariyan).
> 6. Attainer of the fruit of non-returning. (ariyan).
>
> 7. Attainer of the path of arahatta. (ariyan).
> 8. Attainer of the fruit of arahatta. (ariyan).
>
>
> List B: Eight persons worthy of gifts:
>
> 1. One who has entered upon the way to the realization of the fruit of
> stream-entry. (might be an ariyan or puthujjana. If he’s an ariyan
> then he will be the same as person 1 in List A).
> 2. Stream-entrant. (ariyan = person 2 in List A).
>
> 3. One who has entered upon the way to the realization of the fruit of
> once-returning. (ariyan).
> 4. Once-returner. (ariyan).
>
> 5. One who has entered upon the way to the realization of the fruit of
> non-returning. (ariyan).
> 6. Non-returner. (ariyan).
>
> 7. One who has entered upon the way to the realization of the fruit of
> arahatta. (ariyan).
> 8. Arahant. (ariyan).

And in another later post I added the qualification that though the
above is the case with the Dakkhi.naavibhanga Sutta, there are other
suttas in which person 1 in List A refers *only* to the maggasamangii /
attainer of the path of stream-entry, and so in these suttas the list
consists entirely of ariyans.

Best wishes,
Dhammanando

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