Dhammadharo: is and one encourages one doesnt discourage it. But is not true and by all means let’s not be so concerned about it. If one is fooling around with some kind of practice, and if one is honest with oneself, and realizes, and one doesnt really know what one is doing, and if one can’t find any a true in it. Which I think may often be the case with many other, then sooner the one drop it the better. If one is fooling around in the dark, and infact, how would one know that the greed to which one is having if one doesnt have enough attachment from one’s practice, however right or wrong it may be, to start developing sati.
Because the only development of sati which we begin to see, if we have or no and one can’t begin to develop sati if one is clinging to one practice or another, thinking this practice is going to bring more sati, through own practice. So if one is involved in some practice, if one is performing practice because one think this is going to bring me results, faster than any other way, and one is right about the wrong practice in the beginning. That kind of practice is one can happily drop. The moment you drop it, it’s possible that there is awareness, when I say there is awareness, I dont know if you know what I mean, but all of us, regardless whether we are involved in any sort of wrong practice or not. We all do have wrong practice, every day of our lives. It might show by our actions, we might be doing things that are strange, like walking very slowly, or whatever.
We might be living a perfectly ordinary normal life, but we still have wrong practice all the time, at different levels and in different ways, because we are always trying to manipulate sati. Thats a form of wrong practice. When we are trying to , like, staring at objects, wondering, you know trying to make a visible object disappear, thats a kind of wrong practice.
But there are many, many other.. and sometimes it can be very subtle, very subtle. For every time when we drop a wrong practice, there is a moment, a possibility that, for sati. Regardless of whether it is wrong practice that we are clinging to desperately or whether it is a more subtle wrong practice, how can it be sati if we dont drop a wrong practice, for a moment of satti.
Dhammadharo: It can change ones whole lifestyle, lock oneself away from the people. But strange things one would normally won’t do, thats called wrong practice, not subtle at all. That you would normally walk in slow motion, would you? Never, never. But if you think that by walking in slow motion, you are going to have wisdom, then you might devote a day or a week or a year, depending on how strongly you want to get wise. And that would be a wrong practice.
Subtle wrong practice is not easily described, because we can’t see it, we can’t tell when somebody has because the things they say, the things they do, wouldnt be any strange or peculiar. But you can see it in yourself, all of us can see it in ourselves, when we are, you know what I mean, when I say striving to induce sati? When, what about those moments when you feel you would like to be aware of feeling, what about when you hear somebody talking about different kinds of feeling. Well it is important to be aware of feeling, isnt it sometimes, because of our desire, our mind, you know, look for feeling?
Dhammadharo: If we do really know its um the way you describe, it sounds very much alike. But its a level of rupa. Additionally you are talking about, how things are, its a kind of awareness, but we know its not. Thats definitely wrong practice, when we sit down quiet, peacefully, we get this feeling, that we are sort of aware, sort of aware. Thats a kind attachment, its not moha, not a pure moha. I mean you got some really good examples of different types of subtle wrong practice. And we try to direct sati, to some part of the body. In your finger tips, to your neck, or on your eye door, your ear door, your body door. Thats a kind of wrong practice.
Dhammadharo: No, we can be aware of it. Wrong isnt reality to Sati and rupa together, when we have wrong practice. Not just ordinary rupa, but wrong understanding to that moment. [For instance] wrong understanding that [although]you cant control, we cant direct, but you can choose the object that you would be aware of. Now I would be aware of my defilement, now I am angry, so I should be aware of dosa.
Why. Who said? There are realities beside those, when one is angry. Admitedly that you cant be aware of anger, when there isnt anger: But when there is anger, there is not only anger, there are the realities too. And if we think we have to be aware of anger, or dosa because we are upset, we have to be, that’s a kind of wrong practice too. And at that moment there isnt any awareness.
Dhammadharo: Awareness can arise at any time. It doesnt mean we are busy doing something very complicated that we can’t have awareare. It can be awareness of whatever appears. When we are doing complicated things, we also sometimes but we shouldnt think that, lets say we are doing something complicated, something very tricky with our hands, and you are concentrating on it, and then we hear some sound outside, we shouldnt think that there is awareness at that moment, it only means we are hearing. Because anybody, you ask anybody who has never heard about awareness, if when they are doing something complicated, they hear sounds sometimes. Anybody have other objects of conscience when they are concentrating on something in particular, anybody, but to have awareness of eyes or of the sound, or of the hardness, or of color, or of feeling and thats different, and they can be aware of any of those realities because they are real. In the very very beginning, when sati is so weak, and one somebody urges us to be aware, the very reason why awareness should arise and lots of good reasons why the desires of awareness should.
But later on, as awareness develops more and more and more when people urge us to be aware it can for awareness, without having to want to be aware, because somebody is saying be aware. There can be just awareness without wanting to. Or there can be awareness of wanting to. Or there can be awareness, and clinging to awareness make you want more. There would be a moment of right practice, or a moment of wrong practice, no. in the beginning when people say be aware, although they want us to be aware more, because we have accumulated a lot of desire and not so much sati. We should be careful he either mean when he say be aware, that is the condition for us to want it, the condition for us to want to be rupa, that it might seem to us that those words make us, of course, no, its not like that, but anyway when we hear those words, and then we feel that we want to be aware, we cant sought that, we cant help it.
But let there be more awareness, of those moments too. Let’s not just get bugged down in the desire to be aware when we hear the words to be aware. Lets know without wanting to know how can we be aware when we hear the words be aware. Yes, I remind them. You think how when there isnt any level of awareness. Not the level of thinking. Even when people are talking about awareness, in a dhamma discussion, think how moments of when there isnt awareness or level of thinking … when we sit down and think of dhamma.
Dhammadharo: I am sorry, there’s a meaning, it cannot be some actually, like, umm, you may have moments of thinking about dharma, and understanding the aspects of it. But if somebody reminds us to be aware, let us not abuse that opportunity. To be reminded about something or the other. If somebody helps us in tough conditions, lets not take those words as play words . We can say it was a tough condition. We all have conditions we make jokes out of it. If we are gonna make a joke out of it, allow ourselves to take a hint. Hm. We can. Lets us take the hint. I remember (Name: Julin Conny) saying to me that in a .. Work together on the job, together, even though they do have a harmonious way of working together. There would be tension. They would have their little clashes, when they were getting some job done. But when they were doing work on this and they were together again doing lots of work in a short time, the clashes came again but if it wasnt Conny says to adjust in tough conditions, it is a difficult thing to adjust in tough conditions, he took the reminder seriously. They took the reminder seriously, they didnt just stab eachother, while in those conditions. They only helped one another.
Because this is when we realize the value more and more of sati the first level of panna, we begin to see more and more. The true value of being aware. We think we know it already. I know, I know sati is valuable. Of course sati is valuable, what do you think I am putting dharma forward. You think I am a monk or something or I didnt know sati was valuable? But how much do we know the value of sati? But what level do we realize its value? And that too in a right way? And not to benefit from what we hear. There are many levels of satitpattana, many levels of knowing the value of sati, because better and better. And if we think we already know, how can it go? How come we know better, more deeply. Even if the person who said it, says only Nama and even if you know that person it as a joke, can’t you see it it that person isnt saying it as a joke then ..
So that kind of understanding, that kind of understanding cannot arise in someone who has not yet begun to see the value of sati or who has no saddha or faith in the fact that his only condition is Nama and Rupa. If I am lucky, and while I am sitting here I might begin to be able to remember the Nama and Rupa, because I have some, I have some confidence that it is true. But when one is fighting against that, then it is impossible for one to reminded of something that one has not yet accepted. One doesnt have any confidence that it is true. So nothing can remind that person, nothing anybody says to that person about nama and rupa, those words wont bring a response from that person, because the acceptance of that fact, the beginning, the growing fact of that person, the germ of that seed hasnt started growing yet.
If that person is fighting against the whole idea, of developing satipattana, now, naturally, maybe in just theory, that person would say I know Nama and Rupa, but there are two levels of theory, there are two types of knowing a theory, you know only in theory that it is Nama and Rupa but you never ever understood, even the beginning level of practicing, of being aware. Because a person can only think of Nama and Rupa very slowly. A person can only say its Nama and Rupa, and also think the uneven beginning of the right practice. And even if the person knows Nama and Rupa in theory but, the beginning actually, at some level or the other, arises, naturally. In his daily life. Anytime. Any place. And that theory, even though its still a theory, has some bearing on his life. Some bearing at least. Even if he’s still got lots of wrong practice, maybe he still wants to try out new methods. And maybe he can still be lead, .
There are still moments when its possible to perfect life to the theory that he has learned. Cause we all, all of are going down in dark times. Some of us would never realize, that, we are going down the . Thats the trouble. We dont know. Oh, in fact when we have to be hear, when someone said something rude or unpleasant or aggravating, we think to ourselves thats not nama and rupa, really, if that person could earn serious nama and rupa, it would be alright. Now if we at that moment could see that the person we are talking about that we think needs to have nama and rupa, but instead of wishing that people wouldnt say thing or they shouldnt see things this way or why cant they be more relaxed or why wont they listen, we also have some level of sati, and realize that the condition for speaking that way it has such ideas, such views, nothing. It cant happen otherwise.
Dhammadharo: There must be a kind of confusion. If we have sati one time, it doesnt mean everytime there is satti it doesnt mean we have a clear opinion or understanding of being aware. No. but still thinking is different from being aware of a characteristic. Even though the characteristic cannot capable of hearing appear truely in the beginning. At the moment of knowing the characteristic you cannot but it is a characteristic. This idea when we dont know whats going on then you have got sati, because there are many things that you think, like when you hear somebody talking but you cant understand what he is saying that they must have a lot of sati. I have a heard his point of view, like a correspondant, told me how he cannot recognize people anymore, I cannot recognize my father anymore, is that sati?
Dhammadharo: Nobody can tell you if you have sati, nobody can tell, thats it. It would be wrong and unfair, impossible. So all I can say that this moment is to point, that even though its true, that at the moment of satti, you know its characteristic but lets not say that every time you dont know something, its satti. Very wrong.
Dhammadharo: Whats more moment is the moment of awareness, what you experience at that moment. Even though at that moment you dont know anything of this characteristic, how do you know what the person said, how do you know, because you know its characteristic. Thats how one would know, the characteristic, not a person, not anything, but just one characteristic, whatever it was. But one cannot prove that one has awareness, because one doesnt know this and one doesnt know that, but one would know the characteristic of what one knows at that moment.
Dhammadharo: One thing I have found very helpful in my life, is some (Book name and Author). A little more understanding in ones life, a little right understanding and detachment, and one can be sure that one isnt going on the wrong way if you want to know you are going in the right way, you must look at two things. You have a growing understanding of the reality. And more detachment in your life.
2 minute gap, noise.
Dhammadharo: . I want to get on my own dharma study, because I know if I study dharma I can have more We have all these theories of what we call that we want to do. And we have all these results of what we call that we want to build. And when people . Have a lot of satti, a lot of .. a lot of dosa, its like when somebody is sitting there and talking, it doesnt mean you dont have dosa, you have a lot of dosa, you will be very unhappy, but getting the awareness of that thing.
Dhammadharo: It doesnt happen, really, sure, but in reality, if it happens, it happens because of conditions. If we talk about a sudden understanding, its not understanding but just a vision.
Dhammadharo: . You could do it kindly or you could do it roughly. You could be rude. You could be very very kind about the situation. What would I do if a person is talking about a lot of nonsense? and I dont wanna listen to it? Its not dharma to be mean to that person. Now what would I do that might not just benefit me but that person, you have left the .
Dhammadharo: And you are not annoyed by what he is saying anymore, because your mind is busy in sorting out something or if you have it, or you realize ..
(Continue) Satti can arise, to everyone of those, because its a different kind of nama and rupa, whatever is going on. It happens, its different already, it sounds already, it looks already. And those who think it is satti, no. This is not satti. It is different from tomorrow, a reality you couldnt control yesterday. It is a reality you cant control now, its something you heard yesterday. It is arising because of condition. In addition to the hearing that are arising now because of conditions and that has fallen away already because it has conditions. The you have now urges to change the you have tomorrow. And it arises again because of conditions.
Dhammadharo: It is a different level of consistant.
Dhammadharo: It is a kind of concentration, are you sure it is a sati or not?
Unable to hear the last few minute