What I heard, attaa-sa~n~naa


• Dear friends,


When we know that what appears through the eyes is only colour, we do
not pay attention to different colours, there is no interest in them.
Understanding must be developed until it is firm and (at the moment
of awareness of just colour) we have no interest in shape and form.
Otherwise we believe that we see people, that we see Khun Nipat who
is sitting here. One knows shape and form of this or that thing by
remembrance. Colour appears very shortly and falls away very rapidly.
Then bhavanga-cittas (life-continuum) arise and the cittas of a mind-
door process (arising later on) are accompanied by remembrance: there
is remembrance of different colours, shape and form, of things, and
then there is attaa-sa~n~naa, one believes that there is something
there. Through ears hearing hears sounds, but one thinks that one
hears words. Cittas arising in a mind-door process remember concepts.
These arise later on after there have been bhavanga-cittas in between.


• Lukas

Aug 19, 2012
Dear Nina,

The mind-door is also vipaka isnt it? I remeber Acharn said once that when she sees she just sees. As i remember.

The color, vana or visible object ruupa, conditions the seeing consciousness. this is one kind of condition, by way of arammana paccaya. No self that sees. But afterward comes thinking and wrong view that takes it for self or lasting. Isnt it? Is ditthi a reality that can also be known? can there be a vittaka cetasika, thinking in a sense door process, in javana of sense door process?
What is the characteristic of color? Does the characteristic of experiencint , citta of seeing and hearin have different characteristcis?

Best wishes

• Nina van Gorkom

Message 3 of 3 , Aug 19, 2012
Dear Lukas,
Op 19-aug-2012, om 11:38 heeft Lukas het volgende geschreven:

N:ONly the tadaaramma.nacitta that may (or may not) arise in a mind-
door process is vipaakacitta. The preceding javanacittas are not
vipaaka as you know.

N: It is a dhamma and it can be known but not before the first stage
of insight. We can roughly know it by intellectual understanding.
> L: can there be a vittaka cetasika, thinking in a sense door
> process, in javana of sense door process?
N: Yes, there has to be. It does not accompany the sense-cognitions
of seeing etc. These do not need vitakka. I am not dealing now with
> L: What is the characteristic of color?
N: It appears through eyesense, it is that which can be seen. It is
not a person or thing we “believe wrongly” that we see.
> L:Does the characteristic of experiencing , citta of seeing and
> hearing have different characteristcis?
N: Yes, they experience different objects through different doorways.
But all cittas have the characteristic of knowing clearly an object.
Citta is the principal in knowing an object.

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